E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO 
MONDAY, 25 JANUARY 2021
  
SUBJECTS: The Write Stuff book launch; Margaret Court honours; Australia Day date; Victorian economic recovery; Robodebt.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI, HOST: Bill Shorten launched a book of essays yesterday on issues for Labor written by members of the Labor Right in which he called for the party that he took to the last election to stop shrinking to a small policy target, amongst other things besides. And Bill Shorten joins me in the studio now. Bill Shorten, happy New Year, good morning.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Happy New Year, Virginia. 

TRIOLI: It seems very strange to have people in the studio and actually see a politician.

SHORTEN: It is, yes.

TRIOLI: But to see the whites of your eyes is a very good thing, I always think. Bill, I could have sworn that I was listening to an election launch speech yesterday with the claiming of Labor history and the listing of policy agendas and the rhetoric and the attacks on Scott Morrison. Was an election called yesterday and I missed it or something?

SHORTEN: No, you didn't miss it, nor did anyone else. What it was, it was Readings in St Kilda, a Research Centre asked me to launch a book of 31 essays by Labor backbenchers, frontbenchers and union leaders, talking about the way that Labor can win the next election and what's important. And I certainly took the opportunity in part to discuss what I'd learnt from the last election, also to acknowledge that the repercussions of COVID-19, I think, will be one of the big issues in the election if Mr Morrison calls it this year.

TRIOLI: You said yesterday the party has learnt the dangers of taking too large or too cluttered a policy agenda to the electorate. But the polar opposite of a tiny agenda is not the right way either. We must be an opposition that stands for something. These are views, I would imagine, and conversations and assertions that you have in-house, that you actually have within the party rather than having to tell your own party to not hide in the corners. You must feel that you don't have a voice inside the party, or that the voice is not being listened to to be saying it publicly in this way.  

SHORTEN: Oh, no. No, not at all. But what this was, was these were thoughts expressed at the launch of 31 essays of people expressing their views. I think it's important that not all politics is done behind closed doors, actually. I think the Labor Party is big and robust, and I certainly think that we are putting forward ideas. So, it's not an admonition of the status quo. It's just a recognition that on one hand, as I learnt the hard way, if you have a lot of ideas, they can be twisted or can get perhaps confusing for people hearing them. But on the other hand, we just need to make sure that we don't be a party which is completely small target. Now, I don't think we are, but I do think it's important that we just reassure people that the Australian Labor Party understands that it is at its best when we are positive, not just negative. In the last 20 months since the last election, one of the most common statements I hear from people is, gee whiz, we just want you men and women in politics to be more positive, not just negative.

TRIOLI: But clearly, if you didn't think that becoming a tiny target wasn't an issue, then you wouldn't even raise it. It must be preying on your mind that the Labor opposition is shrinking itself, is abandoning policies that you took to the last election, that perhaps shouldn't be abandoned, otherwise you wouldn't raise it at all. You’d be giving a speech saying we're on track, it's looking good?

SHORTEN: Well, I think you find that most of my speech was actually learning the lessons of what Labor has done. And I do think that whilst I acknowledge actions of the federal government with JobKeeper and JobSeeker, the reality is that part of the reason why we've been able to get through COVID-19 better than most countries in the world is that working people have drawn on their long service leave, drawing on their superannuation, we've had a Medicare system in place. We've had the NDIS. And it's Labor has created a big and generous safety net, say, in contrast to the USA. And I think it's important to note that the Morrison Government, I feel, is now reneging on its part of the bargain with the Australian people. People lost their jobs, lost business, lost income, for a public health emergency. And in return, the deal was that the Morrison Government would look after them. And I think the Morrison Government's retreating from the big safety net of Labor too soon, too harshly.

TRIOLI: Hence my point about this sounding like a like an election launch speech, because you go to all those issues and reclaiming those bits of the history. Do you feel they're not being mentioned enough at the moment by the current Labor leadership? Is this something they could concentrate more on in your view? 

SHORTEN: Oh, no, that's not a criticism of the Labor leadership. It is not. I think we can have a discussion of politics and policy in this country without everything being viewed through the prism of leadership. I think that Australians want to see their political parties debating ideas. I, for one, am over the reduction of everything in politics to a reality show and just, it's about personalities. Ideas count. 

TRIOLI: Do many in the party agree with you? Are you a minority view about wanting to have this discussion so openly and publicly, or are there others within the party who are saying the same thing? Go with it. The big policy ideas that really matter, prosecute them hard on your history. Is it just you?

SHORTEN: No, but again, I would just say that I'm in a fortunate and privileged position that when you're launching a book as a former leader, you do have the opportunity to just remind people of what Labor has done and what Labor can do. I don't think there was anything extraordinary in what I said at all. But I also know that in politics you've got to keep repeating your message. And again, I just make it clear that’s not a criticism of the status quo in the party, but it is an opportunity. And all Labor people who want to win the next election need to be not debating the entrails of the Labor Party, but offering people a positive alternative, which we are doing. I mean, I think I said in my speech that our childcare policies, which we announced in response to the budget are an example of positive policies.  

TRIOLI: Yeah, but I also do know, you know, faint praise when I hear it. And this from yesterday. Anthony Albanese is doing a good, solid job in a time of pandemic where the unity of the national movement naturally favours incumbents. A good, solid job is, Bill Shorten, damning someone with faint praise.

SHORTEN: Oh, you can't win, can you? If you don't talk about people, you're accused of being unfair. If you use excessive language, you're accused of being unrealistic. I think we are doing a good job. But I think the truth of the matter is that the national moment favours incumbency and therefore it is hard for oppositions. And I think if any of the oppositions in the nation, federal Labor is doing a better job than most. I mean, when I look at what Michael O'Brien and the Victorian Liberals have been like, I think Anthony and Labor federally have been streets ahead in terms of constructiveness.

TRIOLI: Bill Shorten is here with you this morning, talking about the speech he gave yesterday, an exaltation to his party to continue to think big, to own Labor history and to prosecute a case against Scott Morrison a little more powerfully. Some of the big set pieces you took to the election have been abandoned now, walked away from. I know, and many others know -  even this federal government acknowledges that franking credits is a hole in the road that is going to have to be dealt with eventually. I mean, it's a problem on the budget and on the balance sheet for any government, no matter the stripe. But they're not saying that publicly at this stage. Should the franking credits policy have been walked away from?

SHORTEN: Well, we put it to the Australian people. We were upfront with what we were intending to do, and it got rejected. So, my view is that, yes, it's not a policy - we've tested what the Australian people think on it. And 48 and a half per cent said they could live with the changes and 51 per cent didn't. And that's a crucial gap in the numbers.

TRIOLI: Should the date of Australia Day be changed? 

SHORTEN: Oh, listen Labor's got no plans to change it. I can personally see why for some people they want to keep the day, but other people want to change it. I think over time it's inevitable that the date will change, but I don't think the nation is ready to change it yet. And Labor, I must say, has no plans to change it. I think one of the things holding back the debate is, what would the replacement day be? And as someone who believes in and studies the politics of change until there's perhaps a consensus about what you move to, then it's harder for people to move away from something.  

TRIOLI: Should Margaret Court have been elevated to an AC away from an AO?  

SHORTEN: I don't hand out these awards. Personally, I don't see the reasons for the elevation. She's been a fabulous tennis player and she's an officer of the Order of Australia. She has stated views which while some people agree with her, a lot of other people, find deeply offensive. So, I’m not sure the case is clear why there is promotion in the position. 

TRIOLI: Looking at the economic recovery here in Victoria, which I know is something that you pay close attention to, it seems to be rebounding very strongly, in fact, more strongly really, than any other states’ recovery so far during the pandemic. Where are the holes? Where are the gaps in this and what's not been done? 

SHORTEN: Well, I think Dan’s done a great job. And you're right, Victoria is bouncing back. Overall, I think there's a job here, perhaps in particular for the federal government. But there are some sectors which are hard hit, like, Melbourne's a town you like to go out in, it has events. I think the live event industry, from the sound technicians to the hospitality sector, they're doing it very hard. I think the travel agents and the broader travel industry is doing it incredibly hard. I think higher education, which relies so much on overseas students, is doing it hard. So, I am completely against the federal government rolling back some of the big economic support, in particular, not exclusively, for those sectors. People are still doing it hard - just because some of us are back at work and other people still have their jobs,  you know, the city shops are still doing it hard. They're not getting the cruise ships in. They're not getting the visitors to the CBD. We're not out of the COVID-19 economic symptoms yet. 

TRIOLI: And we haven't had the reduction or removal yet of JobKeeper, so we’re to see what happens there. A few seconds left. Bill Shorten, and I'm glad you joined us today. Thank you. Who is the person in your view who would lead Labor to victory at the next federal election?  

SHORTEN: Anthony Albanese. We can win the next election, but it is hard.

TRIOLI: Not you? 

SHORTEN: No. Oh, no.

TRIOLI: You’ve completely given up any ambitions of leadership?

SHORTEN: My contribution is about policies. You don't have to be the leader to be a leader. And, you know, you can do a lot of good things from the frontbench. I'm pleased that working with Gordon Legal we were able to get the class action up and get back 1.2 billion dollars for 400,000 Centrelink recipients. My constituents still need strong representation. But no. No, on your question the answer is simply no. 

TRIOLI: It's a clear answer. Bill Shorten, good to talk to you. Thanks for joining us today. 

SHORTEN: Fantastic. Thank you.

TRIOLI: Bill Shorten, Shadow Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and Government Services.