E&OE TRANSCRIPT

SUBJECTS: NDIS Section 10 lists

DEBORAH KNIGHT, HOST: The NDIS budget is blowing out big time. Courtesy in large part to roters, and spending on bizarre items: sex therapy and tarot card readings, just to name two. Finally, some common sense and a clear direction on what your money, taxpayer dollars, should be spent on the NDIS. Minister Bill Shorten is with me now. Minister, these changes are long overdue and a lot of it is common sense. Why has it taken so long to get to this point?

BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNENT SERVICES: Well, they are overdue and they are common sense. You probably have to ask the seven coalition Ministers who are in charge of the portfolio before me, because I think what I'm doing is just spelling out in black and white what needs to be done, making it clear for participants what is and isn't allowed expenditure.

KNIGHT: Now, the banned items include tarot cards, clairvoyance and wilderness therapy, even cuddle therapy. Frankly, they should never have been funded in the first place. Why then is there a one year grace period?

SHORTEN: Well, most of these things are not getting funded now. Let's be clear. What this list represents is ten years of lessons. Most of this stuff is not getting funded now, but some of it is, though. Well, the reason why there is a grace period isn't for the illegal stuff. That's like narcotics, illicit substances, alcohol, that's never been allowed and it shouldn't be allowed in terms of the transition period. It's purely, if someone makes a mistake, maybe by virtue of their disability, if the expenditure is small, under $1,500, we'll educate them first and talk to people. The ironic thing is, you say, rightly, why is it taking so long? Other people say, I'm going too quickly, but I think this is now where we need to be.

KNIGHT: And if people are repeat offenders, if they keep claiming the wrong things, will they potentially lose their NDIS funding altogether?

SHORTEN: Well, it's not going to get funded. As simple as that. Now, some of the list of what's out is stuff which, frankly, mainstream departments of government, federal and state and hospitals should be doing. I mean, the NDIS shouldn't be asked to pay for a child with a disability's desk at school. That's the obligation of the school system. If you're on the NDIS and you go to a hospital outpatient ward, you shouldn't be told, no, we won't help you here because you're on the NDIS. So, we'll. I think this is just going to rebuild public confidence in the scheme. Most participants, by the way, nothing is going to change for them. Most participants and most service providers are doing the right thing. But it is an unfortunate fact alive that perhaps the NDIS in the past has been treated with naivety. And wherever there's government money, opportunists will descend like flies upon a barbecue, trying to make their own profits at the expense of participants and taxpayers.

KNIGHT: And what about the Reuters? Will you be putting a stop to all of that? Because we've brought you here on a current affair, story after story of people being fleeced.

SHORTEN: Yeah, absolutely. And we've tripled the safeguards commission. They're the regulator. When I came in two and a half years ago, there were 367 people trying to cover a scheme of over half a million. Now there's over 1000 investigators and complaints officers. We've now got 56 people before the court, so we're waiting for the commonwealth director of public prosecution to put them before the courts. We have over 500 active investigations. And I must always say most people are doing the right thing and this scheme is changing lives. But let's tell the truth. And the truth is there is some proportion who've been having a lend to the scheme, overcharging, over servicing, ripping off, charging a fee for someone on the NDIS, which is higher than if they weren't on the NDIS, charging for nonsense services.

KNIGHT: And it's because of that that the NDIS costs are skyrocketing and it's already one of the most expensive areas of government spending. How much will these changes see taxpayers saving?

SHORTEN: We think over the next four years through the various reforms, including these, but not just these, that we will be able to stop wasteful growth in the order of nearly $15 billion.

KNIGHT: And can you guarantee that the money will now go to where it's really needed?

SHORTEN: Yeah, I actually think that we can. So, the short answer? Yes. Even last year, so financial year 23, July 23 to June 24, we've come in $1 billion under what we forecast, a billion dollars. That's because we've got better quality staff, we've got. We're investing in people and training and the whole aim of the scheme is it is changing lives. I love the idea of the NDIS giving a personal budget to a family, to a person with a disability, so that 80 year old carers drying the dishes late at night, looking over the sink into the backyard, don't have to worry who's going to look after their adult child. A little baby with a non standard developmental journey now has options in life, but we've got to eliminate expenditure, which basically is not delivering any return to participants and in some cases it's just enriching crooks.

KNIGHT: Yeah, well, no argument from anyone on that. But you finish up as NDIS Minister in February of next year. What do you hope your legacy will be?

SHORTEN: That when a child has a non standard development journey and the parents work this out, they've got somewhere to go. That when those ageing parents in their eighties say, who's going to love their 40 or 50 year old child, who needs quite a degree of intensive care, they know that this country will look after your child. That a person with a disability, when they finish year twelve, actually is sent somewhere other than a daycare centre. That they're not looked at. That a person in Australia is not looked at purely through the prism of their disability, but all the things they can do, not what someone thinks they can't do.

KNIGHT: Well, let's hope the money gets to where it is needed. Bill Shorten, thanks so much.

SHORTEN: Thanks for your interest, Deb.