E&OE TRANSCRIPT
GREG JENNETT: Talk of government services being more user friendly in the digital era has been underway, you'd have to say, for a very long time now. And finally, one of the most ubiquitous pieces of plastic we all carry around in our wallets is going digital. We're talking here today about the Medicare card and also talking to Government Services and NDIS Minister Bill Shorten.
Welcome back, Bill. Yes, this day has arrived. What do you anticipate the take up rate to be of Medicare in the phone?
BILL SHORTEN: My vision and the Government's vision, to make citizens feel they're much more in control of their credentials and their identity is to digitise a lot of the identification we use and put it in one government wallet, which you can use the features of your smartphone. So now, today, I'm pleased to say it's possible for you to upload your Medicare card into your myGov app digital wallet on your smartphone. Use the attributes of the phone, the security of the phone, and there it is. No more carrying around one more bit of junk in your wallet.
GREG JENNETT: There are security features there, I read a QR code. Does that then make it possible to use the Medicare card in a digital fashion for other purposes that weren't being used with plastic? I'm thinking about extra points for identification.
BILL SHORTEN: Yeah, that's where I want to get, no question, the Medicare cards worth, I think, 25 points of identification. One of the big challenges we have in the modern era is that we're often asked for documents which prove our identity. You might give them to, dare I say it, a mobile phone company to get a phone, or a real estate agent or a financial planner. Really, those companies don't want that data. What we need is a secure, trusted credential, which means that when you've got it on your wallet, that's it. And the beauty of that is that you don't have to trust your identification details to someone you're trying to prove your identity to. So we've got a little bit of a way to go. I'd like to see driver's licences on it. And the other thing, without sort of overly complicating things, Greg, is Medicare still store your Medicare data. It doesn't go to anyone else. If we're able to upload a driver's licence from the state on your digital government wallet, they still keep that. So we don't put all the data in one spot. It's distributed, so it's actually a safe way to do things.
GREG JENNETT: All right. I don't want to bore our tech savvy audience on Afternoon Briefing with the technical details. They can work out how to complete this conversion. But for those who still have plastic, is there any timeline for the elimination?
BILL SHORTEN: No. Look, if we want to have modern services accessible and save people time, we've got to invest more in a vision for digital technology. But there's some people who don't want to change and there's some people who are just undocumented or because of their own circumstances, don't even want to go into a Services Australia Office. So, yes, digital is quicker and easier, but if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
GREG JENNETT: Question of the day, which I suppose you would anticipate, because Ministers will be asked this. Do you see this as an issue if it were happening in a few months time, where the Voice might need to be consulted on the rollout of a digital service, particularly as it might affect remote users in this country?
BILL SHORTEN: Once we have the referendum, and if we decide to include recognition of First Nations People in the nation's birth certificate, what the referendum is doing is just creating an obligation to listen to people. So if the Parliament will then implement it. So nothing's going to change in terms of the role of the Parliament. But I think it's smart where if you're rolling out services to remote communities in Australia, you should talk to First Nations People.
GREG JENNETT: So that's a yes, you would actually bring them into the fold before you get to the point of announcement like today?
BILL SHORTEN: Well, we do things, we already in Services Australia, do a fair bit of consultation, but I think just making it mandatory is smart. So do I think, day-to-day for a range of things which a Labor Government do. We already talk to people, but I think saying to Australia that we recognise that what we've done for 235 years hasn't worked and that, yes, we make that a necessary step. And by the way, when you consult and listen to people, you don't have to do what they say, but you're always smarter to talk to the experts. And who's the experts in remote communities? The people who live there.
GREG JENNETT: The Indigenous Australians. Why don't we take you to some matters around NDIS? And somewhat unexpectedly, your colleague Mark Butler in Health has announced today that what's called the High-Risk Settings Pandemic Payment Scheme for those who are out of leave but can't work because of COVID conditions, ends tomorrow. And a new one will start specifically for aged care workers from Saturday. Now, that will mean the cutoff of this payment to thousands of disability sector workers. What's in store, if anything, for them from Saturday?
BILL SHORTEN: Well, as I understand the decisions about high-risk settings, and it's been put to me that in crowded aged care facilities, that's a particular sort of vector for the risk of COVID. We thankfully have moved away from a lot of those more institutional settings and disability. But I'm certainly going to talk with the workforce and with the Department of Social Services and other people in the government that if there is a high-risk setting that helps identifies, then I think we will need to be consistent for people who work in high-risk settings, it's a matter of getting that definition right.
GREG JENNETT: Would there be a number of people who will be cut off or the payment no longer applied to from Saturday, currently in disability?
BILL SHORTEN: I'm not sure if there are, but I'm certainly alive to the issue and I certainly think, in light of the announcement, I think it's only fair to the disability workforce that we just understand what the science behind the health announcement is and where it requires consistent application. Then we'd have to have that conversation in Government.
GREG JENNETT: It's not cheap, I mean, up to $750. So if you did discover a large-ish number of people -
BILL SHORTEN: Yeah, I'm not going to start saying I think there's a big floodgate of claims. COVID is a real issue in the community. We need to do all we can to still keep fighting it. A lot of disability carers are casually employed, they don't have a lot of leave. But we do need to work out what is the criteria that the health experts are saying are the high-risk settings. But for people in the world of disability, certainly I'm listening to them and we'll just work through and see what implications there are for the people in my part of the world.
GREG JENNETT: All right, watch this space on that. Your review of the NDIS won't be completed before the May budget. Will you be doing other things in the interim to control what I think is 14 per cent growth that was heralded in the October budget? So interim measures from the May budget.
BILL SHORTEN: That's an important question. The review is, it's been working ever since we set it up last October. So we have got some early sort of observations from the review and from the board of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. So I think we will be in a position by work we've already done consulting with the disability sector to have some opportunity to see where we can improve the scheme. But there's one key point when I talk about that -some people in Canberra say they always talk about the NDIS in terms of cost. That's an important issue. But I always start my conversation about reforming the NDIS in the following way. Where it's working well now, which it is in many cases, it's life changing, but where it isn't, it's a real problem. But any changes we make have got to answer one question above all else. Is this good for the participant? Does it make life easier? Are we making sure every dollar gets through to the NDIS recipient? So I'm optimistic that we've got some, the fruits of early work. And the other thing, let's be real. A lot of people in the world of the NDIS know what needs to be done. My predecessors perhaps couldn't, wouldn't, didn't know how to get it done. So I'm confident that working with people with disability will start. And I made clear when we announced the October review that where there were early observations and lessons, we didn't have to wait till October. So I guess the short answer to your question is yes.
GREG JENNETT: It's coming. Okay, look, finally, Bill Shorten, you've been taking Dorothy Dixers for a fortnight now on Stuart Roberts' Ministerial conduct in Robodebt. But in other matters too, you probably went even further under parliamentary privilege today, saying that commercial relationships he had were not disclosed. What is it that you're seeking from him?
BILL SHORTEN: What I've said is, I didn't use the word commercial, but there's a company called Synergy 360. Some of the principals of that company have a close relationship with Mr. Roberts. I'm not saying it's of a financial nature. Synergy 360, through leaked emails obtained by other media outlets from within the big IT companies trying to sell to governance, Synergy 360 reveal that Mr. Robert was instrumental in trying to get them in front of decision makers for procurement. Mr. Roberts has said, and let's be very clear, nothing untoward here. I guess I have one question, though, for Mr. Robert. In one particular matter. A body which currently exists to stamp out corruption is called the Australian Criminal Law Enforcement Integrity Commission. There's a parliamentary committee that overlooks it. It's a matter of record now that Unisys, a big American company wanted to talk to this powerful parliamentary committee about the benefits of its software called LineSight and if Home Affairs was ever to purchase it, it'd be hundreds of millions dollar contract. Synergy 360 are the people advising this American company how to navigate the pathways of Australian politics. It's clear from leaked emails that Mr. Robert helped facilitate their understanding of Australian politics. I just would like Mr. Robert to clarify, did he at any point that he was serving on this committee and promoting this company in any fashion, disclose that he has a good personal knowledge of the lobbyists who stood to make a lot of money out of the uptake of this contract?
GREG JENNETT: All right, that's the question. Let's wait and see on any answers that might flow. Bill Shorten, much more we could talk about. We'll wrap it up there for today. Thanks.
