E&OE TRANSCRIPT

SUBJECTS: NDIS legislation; CFMEU administration; gambling advertising

GREG JENNETT, HOST: The Minister for the NDIS and Government Services, Bill Shorten, joins us now. Bill, welcome back to the programme. Why don't we start out in your portfolio with the NDIS? I think last time you were here in July, you were expressing your frustration over the six week delay that had been inflicted on your sweeping bill for NDIS changes. There have been some movement, I think, in recent days. Have you got the support necessary to have this pushed through the Senate, perhaps as early as this week?

BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Well, I hope so. It was actually an eight week delay and the actuary of the Scheme says that the delay has probably meant that a billion dollars more was expended than might have otherwise needed to be, but, we are where we are now. The committee that the Liberals and the Greens wanted to set up has come back and reported it made one recommendation, Greg, pass the bill, just pass the bill.

JENNETT: Pass the bill?

SHORTEN: Just pass the bill.

JENNETT: Right.

SHORTEN: But anyway, I probably [inaudible]

JENNETT: And they'll lock onto that and you'll make some concessions?

SHORTEN: The Greens have now tabled amendments. The Liberals have now tabled amendments. You know, we're looking at them. I think we can be, we're looking at the Green stuff, but it's sort of a bit off with the pixies. What some of the stuff they're saying with the libs, some of their stuff was a bit over the top. I thought, can't do that. But there's other measures which may be, in a perfect world, we wouldn't totally agree with, but we're prepared to negotiate, so hopefully we can get it on, because people with disability deserve to have clarity around what they can spend money on. We need to crack down on some of the poor design features and the waste which is happening to stop the money being inexpended and not getting good outcomes for people with disability.

JENNETT: Ok. So, even if you succeed and pass that bill in this Federal Parliament to achieve the savings you've targeted, there must still be those foundational supports built out by the states. Here's something, I'll just bring it to you and our audience that the NSW Education Minister and Deputy Premier, Prue Car, who we'll hear from in full, told this programme a little earlier today.

PRUE CAR, NSW EDUCATION MINISTER AND DEPUTY PREMIER: Surely we cannot be leaving kids in particular off the system with nowhere to get support. If they fall off, there needs to be a net for these people to fall into, and that's what we are locked in negotiations with the Commonwealth government about.

JENNETT: So, Prue Car from NSW there, Bill Shorten, this obvious concern that kids will be pushed off will drive the negotiation strategy of NSW, many other states. How are you going to satisfy them that that's not going to happen?

SHORTEN: Well, it's not going to happen, and we've been clear about that all along. Listen, I accept the states are, if I can speak in plain English, they're paranoid they're going to have to start looking after kids they thought they didn't have to look after, but our independent review, talking to thousands of people with disabilities, says the NDIS can't be the only lifeboat in the ocean. It was never the intent when we set up that Scheme that we wouldn't have a range of less intensive supports for families and people with disabilities outside the Scheme. We're having constructive discussions with the states, so, sure, I get that. The states, they've got their concerns. They also have statutory responsibilities to people with disabilities. You know, we're not in charge of the schools in NSW, but at the moment we've got NDIS therapists going into schools because they need more support, so.

JENNETT: It's not enough though, is it? Do you think that they're backsliding in their negotiations on the original deal to pick up half of the cost of those supports?

SHORTEN: I think there's no doubt that the states out negotiated my predecessors where states said they were responsible for growth in the Scheme every year of 4%. And if it grew any more than that, that was totally on the Commonwealth bill. They drove a good deal. We've revisited this. We've said we want to share at 50 50, but we're doing our very best to work with the states. Premier Malinauskas and Premier Rockliff, on behalf of all the premiers, came to visit me at my electorate and we had a really constructive meeting and we've had dialogue since then. Do we have a deal? No. Are we trying our very best to get a deal? Yes.

JENNETT: It could get pretty willing, though, couldn't it? And I know at the Press Club yesterday, which many of our viewers will have seen, you were asked to entertain the ripping the band aid off scenario. What is that?

SHORTEN: Well, it was the journalist who used the term rip the band aid off. I think what they meant is, if you can't get the states to agree, will you still go ahead with your legislation? Yeah, we are committed to reforming the Scheme. For me, I have one question in my head which I try and answer - what is in the best interest of people with disability? The truth of the matter is the NDIS can be run better than it is. It's life changing, it's an investment, it's fantastic, it's exceeding expectations, but it can't keep growing at the rate it is, it's going to keep growing. We're not going to put tens of thousands of people out of the Scheme. But the states are legitimate stakeholders and they contribute to the Scheme. They have a point of view, we are listening to them, they are entitled to a legitimate view and being heard just as, but for me, the ultimate test is best interests of people on this game.

JENNETT: Last one on this because we've got a few other matters today. Do you have a deadline that you've put to the premiers in South Australia, Tasmania, but elsewhere?

SHORTEN: Now, to be fair, these are premiers. They're fully formed adults running their own governments. I understand what the states want. We've got to see if we can agree with what they want. Without compromising what we want. We're negotiating. Watch this space. All I can promise people with disability, their families, the people love them and Aussies generally, is if we can make a deal, we will. And if we can't, we'll just keep working through it because it's too important to fail.

JENNETT: As I foreshadowed a little earlier, your colleague Murray Watt will join us later this hour. He's had a bit of a procedural setback on his CFMEU administration in the Senate. I think there's still a degree of confidence, correct me if I'm wrong, in the Government, that this will probably get through. Assuming it does, that would expand administration out to many more than just the original jurisdictions of the CFMEU branches that were included in the Federal Court proposal. Where does that leave donations to the ALP from the additional branches that weren't addressed by the national executive?

SHORTEN: It'll be a matter for the party, but we've suspended donations from the branches which were initially included. So, the party will work it out, but I expect that we'll have the same policy. Murray's the point person on this. He's been right in the detail. He's got a formidable intellect, but he's also got formidable strength. Most trade unionists, absolutely most and most officials do the right thing every day. There have been issues raised which do require investigation and you can't avoid that, can't duck that. You know, I know the Libs call for royal commissions and inquiries. That hasn't worked because if it was, you wouldn't have these problems. Now there are a lot of good people in the construction sector, a lot of good members, a lot of good officials and delegates, administration I think is what is required. We've got to do it because if you really care about collective bargaining and the best conditions of workers, their safety, then you've got to make sure that you have accountable leadership which is doing the right thing and not at any point or officers of that union acting in the interests of anything other than the members.

JENNETT: All right. You've given us an indication there on donations that might extend to other branches.

SHORTEN: I must say that will be up to other people.

JENNETT: That would be the national executive. Gambling or gambling advertising. Earlier today you used the phrase “zealot anti gamblers” as you made the case to give further consideration to the importance of Australian content and free to air broadcasters. Who are they?

SHORTEN: Well, we're gambling ad reformers. Labor is very committed. We have banned the use of credit cards for betting, online betting. We've got betstop, which has seen 27,000 people just stop betting. We've tightened video content so that kids can't access games and the classification of videos, which might have algorithms encouraging gambling. So, we've done more than any government ever. This is not a contest about do we want to diminish gambling advertising and its impact. It's not an argument about reform or not reform. It's an argument about how far, how fast, what's realistic, what isn't. And the point I've raised is that I understood, I've seen the effects of gambling addiction close up in my own family, but also what I raised, and this is, you know, I'm very supportive of what the Government's talking about. Michelle Rowland’s said, ok, we want to protect the kids, tick. We don't want to see our sporting events deluge with gambling advertising, we just want to watch sport, tick. We want to make sure that the online world, which has come, you know, it's a very recent development in the last 15 years that somehow gambling's not being used to addict people. Ads are not being used online. So, we're going to do things sensibly. But the point I raised on the Q and A show Monday is that traditional media, I mean, we're lucky the ABC's Government taxpayer funded, that's great, and I support that. But we need people to be able to access news for free, and not just through the, you know, Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg. The reality is, in a pluralist democratic society, if we don't have free to air media, we've got a problem about misinformation, disinformation and an encroachment on our system. Now, the gambling reformers who want total abolition, they say, well, we'll do something else about that. I'm just raising the issue.

JENNETT: Yeah, why wasn’t it raised a bit raised earlier, you know, back against –

SHORTEN: Because I wasn't on Q and A earlier, I don’t know.

JENNETT: - your late friend Peta Murphy and her committee raised this, well, just over a year ago, 14 months, I think. I didn't hear any of these arguments raised by Ministers in the immediate aftermath of that release.

SHORTEN: Well, first of all, I miss Peta, and she did a great job. I was rapt when I was able to get her pre-selected to run for Dunkley 2016 and to encourage her again in 2019 when she got elected. But ultimately, the Government's got to make a decision on matters, and I think that the direction we're doing, it's not everything that everyone wants. I get that. I've been an advocate, and when I've wanted everything and haven't got everything, I don't make the good, the enemy of perfect. But some of the advocates are saying somehow if we don't do exactly what they want, that somehow you're not doing anything at all, and that's just rubbish.

JENNETT: We'll await further developments on that front. Bill Shorten, thank you as always.

SHORTEN: Thank you.