E&OE TRANSCRIPT

SUBJECTS: NDIS legislation to protect participants from fraud; QLD state election; Abortion; Qantas

GREG JENNETT, HOST: NDIS Minister Bill Shorten was in the Ipswich area at the weekend. We spoke to him a short time ago. Bill Shorten, good to have you back with us once again. We've got a bit of ground to cover. Why don't we start out with your own portfolio, disability insurance, and you are significantly bolstering or proposing to the powers of the Quality and Safeguards Commission, including the ability to refer bad conduct for criminal prosecution? What sorts of offences fall into that category?

BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Well, the NDIS is changing lives. There's nearly 700,000 people on it. Unfortunately, there are some providers who are crooked, behaving unethically, and what that does is that compromises both quality and safety of participants. So, we've already made a record investment and we're already handling record complaints, record prosecutions. But today we launch a new consultation about legislation which I hope could be passed by the Parliament as early as the first session next year. It's going to allow for new offences, it's going to allow greater powers for the Safeguards Commission, it's also going to increase the penalties and that goes for people who injure or hurt participants, and, yeah, we want to make clear this is an honest Scheme and the crooks are not welcome.

JENNETT: Yes. So, the penalties go up, but just compare and contrast existing arrangements. Is it not possible at present, in cases of serious abuse or misconduct of a participant, for the commission to refer for criminal prosecution?

SHORTEN: Yes, I mean, we, we haven't been doing nothing for the last two and a half years. I've tripled the size of the Safeguards Commission. For the first time, we've invested in a proper back of house payments investigation system. We've got 21 agencies working together with state police. But the reality is that if you injure a worker in Australia, the maximum penalty can be up to $15 million, but if you injure a participant on the NDIS, the penalty is only up to $400,000 and the life of a person on the Scheme is worth no less than any other Australian. So, we are doing stuff, but we're now moving into fifth gear. We've banned, since I've been Minister, over 200 people, lifetime bans, which is a lot more than my predecessors did. But the Disability Royal Commission and the review into the NDIS said strengthen the penalties go down this path and we are.

JENNETT: And so how many fly by nighters, shonky operators, call them what you will, would you anticipate would not qualify for registration under these bolstered arrangements when they're passed into law?

SHORTEN: It's a good question, I mean the problem with crooks is they don't tend to self report. But I've got no – and the vast bulk of service providers do the right thing, I must stress that, but there's an unacceptable number. We've now –

JENNETT: Hundreds?

SHORTEN: Well in the last year, we've handled now 111,000 complaints on various issues. We've got 56 people before the courts. But yes, I would say there would be literally hundreds if not more dodgy providers who we just want to eradicate from the Scheme.

JENNETT: All right, quick one on timeline. You do want to have it passed early next year but yet you've got to consult with states, territories and advocacy groups. Have you left your run a bit too late here?

SHORTEN: No, I think the stuff's less controversial, to be honest. The states and territories are interested in compliance, enforcement, safety and quality. I think Mr. Dutton said this should have happened earlier. I mean, right back at you, Pete. Maybe you should have done it? But you've left it to us to clean it up. We got the broom out and we've been working hard.

JENNETT: Alright, let's move on to the defeat of the Miles Labor Government in the Queensland election at the weekend. It was a brutal and severe rejection of Labor in that state, in many ways. What do you believe voters were saying about the Albanese Government of which you're a member?

SHORTEN: Well, I don't think the Prime Minister's name was on any ballot paper. I think there was time for a change, mood in the electorate and that was clear. It's been emphatic and I congratulate the new premier of Queensland, Mr. Crisafulli. I think it was mainly state issues but cost of living is a global issue. It's a state issue, it's a federal issue, it's a council issue. So, I've got no doubt cost of living is a giant factor.

JENNETT: And that will invite a response, won't it? Because we saw in the Queensland context the Premier promising, in fact delivering, cheaper public transport, free school lunches on offer, taxpayer owned fuel stations. Was that a mistake or should the Albanese Government give consideration to similarly populist cost of living measures?

SHORTEN: Well, we don't run the schools, so the free lunches is, I suppose, a state issue and we don't run the public transport. I think the public transport proposition was quite popular wherever I campaigned in Ipswich West, it's quite popular. In terms of our cost of living responses, we have provided the energy rebate and we have provided, thank goodness ,we rejigged the tax cuts and Labor's tax cuts have meant that 13.7 million people are paying less tax than they would have otherwise paid. But I've got no doubt we keep working on cost of living measures. We understand people are just doing it really hard.

JENNETT: In what ways? Because energy bill relief is very direct. I suppose you could also say populist and popular. What other tools spring to mind that federal disposal to address cost of living?

SHORTEN: Well, I would say that the tax cuts which the Prime Minister and the Treasurer put before people February, March of last year.

JENNETT: So, more of those?

SHORTEN: I don't know. My point would be that, that was about 100 billion in extra tax relief for 13.7 million people. So, I know in the modern 24 hour media cycle, you know, unless you've got something new every 12 hours, you tend to forget things. But I think those tax cuts were pretty amazing.

JENNETT: Sure.

SHORTEN: We've also provided more urgent Medicare clinics. We've also provided cheaper medicine. We'll keep working on it. That's up for the Treasurer to outline more, but, you know, cheaper energy, cheaper Medicare, cheaper drugs. When I say cheaper Medicare, the urgent clinics, bulk billing and the tax cuts.

JENNETT: All right. Abortion bubbled to the surface in the context of the Queensland election campaign. Now, separately, but somewhat related to that, there was an attempt by Senator Nampijinpa Price to try and generate a federal conversation on this policy. How will Labor respond to that or should it?

SHORTEN: Well, frankly, you know, I've seen a bit in politics, but I was shocked when both the Katter Party and elements of the LNP were talking about criminalising abortion. It's like they'd swallowed the Trump playbook. That's a very divisive measure. Women in Australia have a right to access health care safely. I think Mr. Dutton needs to be unequivocal on this. It did take the Queensland Premier a long time to answer the question. Mr. Dutton, I think needs to just answer two simple questions. One, do you reject any efforts to criminalise abortion? Two, do you recognise that the Federal Government doesn't have a role in passing abortion laws because some of his backbench seem to think that they wanted to start getting into this debate and it's – can't we just concentrate on cost of living? Why do we need to reopen this damaging debate which I think most Australians and most Australian women have thought was in the dustbin of history?

JENNETT: Sure. But even in posing those questions as you have here, you are in a sense reopening it, aren't you, for want of a better word, as a wedge issue?

SHORTEN: No, I think Mr. Katter and Mr. Dutton's own people are flying a lot of kites on this. Let me be really clear. The idea that Queensland women may have had to face a law where they'd have to cross the border to access abortion, I find really surprising and really unhelpful. Sometimes when you're a political leader, you just got to rule some stuff out. And I think it would be very easy for Mr. Dutton to say, don't support the decriminal – don't support the criminalisation of abortion. And it's not a topic which he wants the federal Parliament to engage in.

JENNETT: Ok, so beyond answering those two questions, there's nothing else that you think is worthy of prosecution by the Albanese Government on abortion policy federally?

SHORTEN: I think this discussion spun out of what happened in Queensland. I think you find the Albanese Government is focused on cost of living and indeed what we're doing on NDIS, making sure that the money is getting through to whom it is and not being wasted – that is a cost of living measure. It's making sure there's value as opposed to wasteful expenditure and unethical behaviour.

JENNETT: All right, quick one on nuclear, much is being made of the differences between Premier Crisafulli and Peter Dutton on nuclear power. But how is that any different to every other premier and would be Prime Minister Peter Dutton, Chris Minns, Jacinta Allan, I mean, they're all in the same boat here, aren't they?

SHORTEN: They are. But doesn't that therefore mean that the Opposition Leader is off on a frolic with his unrealistic nuclear energy scheme? Mr. Crisafulli is his own party. There are LNP's next to both their names. And if Mr. Dutton's own party doesn't want nuclear power stations in Queensland, why is Mr. Dutton persisting in this sort of smoke and mirrors game of saying, I've got this energy policy which is actually very expensive and no one wants?

JENNETT: Right, but constitutionally, if he overturned the ban federally, he could at the same time override the states, right?

SHORTEN: Well, he needs to say what he's going to do. And by the way, where are his costings? I've sent Burke and Wills out to look for them, but they're not back yet.

JENNETT: Quick, final one. Bill, while we've got you on Qantas upgrades, have you ever sought by text or by phone call, to initiate or request an upgrade on personal that is unofficial travel?

SHORTEN: No. And also, let's be straight about this debate. The Prime Minister has declared and disclosed he's a stickler for transparency. You know, I'm not sure where this debate goes?

JENNETT: Yeah, you're talking about the rules as they currently exist. I think the conversation that's being generated by Joe Aston's book is whether there is an issue about transparency here, whether, apart from the fact of the upgrade, we should see additional granular detail about who offered it, who sought it, what the circumstances were. Do you see a case for that?

SHORTEN: Well, I think the issue is that you judge people on the rules. And I know the Prime Minister very well. I absolutely 100% know that his credo is transparency, and he's been transparent for a very long time.

JENNETT: All right, Bill Shorten. I said we had a lot of ground to cover. I reckon we did. Thanks so much.

SHORTEN: Thank you.