E&OE TRANSCRIPT

SUBJECTS: Passing bills in Parliament; 2025 election; NSW power outage

 [Footage of Senator Jacqui Lambie]

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: For more, we're joined by Opposition leader Peter Dutton and Bill Shorten in Canberra because they haven't slept, but they're together. You guys. Good morning. What a hot mess that all was, Billy. 

BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES: Oh obviously I like Jackie Lambie, but when she's, when she's cranky – she does cranky very well. Actually, what happened last night was that the Labor Government got through a lot of new laws. Listen, what it really means for your listeners this morning, if you rent, if you're a childcare worker, if you're worried about social online trolling of under 16s, if you're someone who wants to see a future made in Australia, you were the winner last night. 

STEFANOVIC: Alright. You hate the Greens so much though, Billy? It's delicious to watch. You flick them $500 million just as a sweetener? I mean, I'd love to be your enemy.

SHORTEN: Well, that'll never happen, Karlos. In terms of the Greens, listen, they exist, they’re in the political spirit. We would always like to negotiate sensibly. On some matters, Peter here, we were able to do a deal with. On others, the Greens gave in and –

PETER DUTTON, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Does that hurt you to say that then?

STEFANOVIC: It does.

SHORTEN: Oh, nah, it's Friday.

STEFANOVIC: The words eventually came out, but he was struggling.

SHORTEN: No, we did some, some arrangements with the Libs and that's, that's politics. In terms of the Greens, the Greens basically caved on a lot of stuff and we were able to – for us, it's about getting things done for the people, mate, and that Senate, it's a bit like making a sausage. You don't always want to see how it's done, but it's about the end product, isn't it?

STEFANOVIC: Pete, can you come in there? Any comments on making sausages in Parliament House?

DUTTON: Well, I just – I just think that was the best spin that I've ever heard because basically what we saw in the Senate last night was it was a going out of business sale. It was like just everything discounted and whatever it takes to clear the shelves. This Government's – I mean, frankly, the Albanese Government's sort of running on three flat tyres at the moment and they are limping to Christmas. They're just getting out of this Parliament. They spent a motser of taxpayers money to get the Greens across the line in a pretty unholy alliance and I think people see through it and I think the Government will be glad to get through the Parliament and be surprised if we come back next year. I think the PM's in a pretty desperate state.

STEFANOVIC: Are you ready for the election?

SHORTEN: Oh, I think – 

DUTTON: We're ready, we’re ready, bring it on. I said to him yesterday, call the election and put Australians out of their misery and get a good government in so we can get the country back on track.

STEFANOVIC: Billy? 

SHORTEN: The only trouble with Pete calling it on- the only trouble with Peter calling on yesterday is going to give us an election on New Year's Day which no one would thank us for. What it means last night for the people of Australia is that a lot of the things which we think are important and a lot of the promises we made were delivered. I mean, the reality is that we're supporting 3 million people who've got HECS debts and we’re going to write off 20% of it, done.

STEFANOVIC: Billy, I don't think anyone's going to be – I mean, sure, there are achievements there, but the question remains, I mean, Billy, are you better off now than you were three years ago?

SHORTEN: Well, the fact of the matter is that the global economic circumstances have been tough. People are doing it tough. But I tell you what, if it hadn't been for Labor, we just wouldn't have seen real wages moving, we wouldn't have seen the energy rebates, we wouldn't have seen the revival of our Medicare and bulk billing. So, in tough circumstances there's been some really solid achievements. 100,000, you know, more than 100,000 fee free TAFE places. So, yeah, things have been getting done. Even though it is a very tough circumstances for – 

STEFANOVIC: Social media reforms are historic, Pete. We still don't know how it's going to all work. What are you relying upon with that Bill?

DUTTON: Well, Karl, I think it's a cracking outcome and we pushed the Government to this position and we announced in June that we would do this in our first hundred days in government. And I think it's something that most parents around the country would give a head nod to because these big tech companies only see our kids as a profit making venture. They don't care about the content that they're seeing online, the grooming that takes place, the sharing of information of an adult nature. We've spoken to parents who have lost their kids to suicide because of the social media intrusion and the companies have the technology now, without collecting any of your data, they can identify your face as being under or over 16. And they should deploy that technology as they do across a number of their other platforms and that way, hopefully we can keep young kids, young, impressionable minds off Snapchat and other social media platforms like that.

STEFANOVIC: All right, NSW power grid barely scraped through this week, even though temperatures weren't particularly high in the city, I mean, temperatures not unusual for an Aussie summer, and Federal Energy Minister Chris Bowen, he gets the star of the week. He's pinning the problem on coal, the only thing keeping the system going at the moment. And Chris Minns, the Premier, saved the state by asking everyone not to wash their dishes. I mean, it's like a Monty Python skit, Bill.

SHORTEN: No, Karl, by the way, with the online safety, I want to congratulate Michelle Rowland, the Labor Government, for doing it. And I agreed with what Peter said about big tech needs to smarten up here and stop pocketing profits off the back of kids’ data. In terms of the coal, did you know, fun facts here, that in the last quarter of the Coalition Government 36 times the regulator said that there had to be a notice to watch out for a drawdown on resource on our supplies and in the third quarter of the Coalition Government it happened 55 times. In the time that Albo has been in charge, it's happened once. The reality is that five coal stations closed under the Libs. They did nothing. The problem is that the coal industry, the people who make the money out of coal power stations, aren't interested in running coal power stations. We have to move to renewables. It's not renewables that cause the blackouts. What happens is these old coal plants break down, the companies who own them won't reinvest in them and so what we're doing is we're making sure that we've got renewables in the future.

STEFANOVIC: Quickly on that, Pete.

DUTTON: Well, two things. One is they're not investing in coal because all of the government subsidies being provided to renewables and we need renewables, but we need 24/7 power, which is what coal and gas provides us, and that's the reality. So, the Government's removed any incentive for investment into that space. Second point, as importantly, put firewood on your Christmas list this year. Buy your family or buy your cousins at Christmas Day, you know, a bag of firewood at the local servo, because soon we'll be cooking over an open fire and keeping warm next winter with the use of wood and fire, Bill. I mean, is that what the Government's got in mind here? We're going backwards.

SHORTEN: It would – do you know what I like –

STEFANOVIC: Finally talking to each other.

[Crosstalk]

SHORTEN: Talk to the hand. In all seriousness, we've had climate change – like, the problem is that – why don't the Libs just accept the science that the planet is getting hotter and that climate change is happening?

STEFANOVIC: Oh, I don’t want to go down this. 

SHORTEN: Climate change is happening.

STEFANOVIC: That’s a big, long debate, Billy. It's your last cross.

SHORTEN: Oh, no – 

STEFANOVIC: It’s your last cross. It's your last cross. You guys have gotta go –

SHORTEN: Why is it, why is it – 

STEFANOVIC: Hang on, Bill, it’s your last cross of the year, potentially forever, because we're going to go to an election early next year. Pete, would you like to say something nice about Bill ahead of Christmas?

DUTTON: Well, I was about to say how good Bill's looking this morning.

SHORTEN: Yeah, well, not too dusty. 

DUTTON: Side on not as good as the front on shot, so I just want to share that.

SHORTEN: Oh, okay.

STEFANOVIC: I've got an idea. I've got an idea. I've got an idea. Here we go.

SHORTEN: I've got such a line here.

STEFANOVIC: Here we go. Hug it out, guys. Hug it out. It's Christmas.

DUTTON: Was that the most awkward hug ever?

STEFANOVIC: Come on, hug with gusto.

DUTTON: Come in, come in, come in.

SHORTEN: Like a pair of guys who walked into the wrong bar in Oxford Street.

DUTTON: It's been a rough night when you're embracing Bill in the morning, that's all I'll say.

SHORTEN: I am nowhere near as dusty. 

SARAH ABO, HOST: Oh, look at them.

STEFANOVIC: I’m getting emotional, I’m getting emotional.

ABO: Look at the two of them.

STEFANOVIC: Beautiful stuff, guys.

SHORTEN: I think some of the viewers have just vomited up their Weet-bix. I’d like to apologise to any children watching that.

STEFANOVIC: Congratulations, Bill, on a great career and we'll see you next year, hopefully, in a different role. But for you and Pete, have a great Christmas to you and your families. Stay well.

DUTTON: Thanks to you guys too. Thank you.

SHORTEN: That was emotionally draining.

STEFANOVIC: For all of us. What a moment on Australian television.

ABO: Karlos, it was the bromance we didn't know we needed. Oh look they’re going to go for a third hug.

STEFANOVIC: Going back in.

SHORTEN: Now it's getting freaky.