E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SUBJECTS: Planned protests to mark one year anniversary of Oct 7 attacks; Australians in Lebanon; NRL grand final
SARAH ABO, HOST: Well, thousands of protesters will take to the streets this weekend to mark a year of the Israel-Gaza conflict, with authorities calling for calm after the rallies were given the green light. For more, we're joined by NDIS and Government Services Minister Bill Shorten in Melbourne and opposition leader Peter Dutton in Brisbane. Good to see you both. Pete, I'll start with you. So, New South Wales tried to block this rally, that was overruled. The SA, in South Australia, the police say they don't oppose it. Those attending say it'll be peaceful. So how do we strike the right balance here?
PETER DUTTON, LIBERAL PARTY: Well, Sarah, this is the biggest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust. And that's what October 7th is. So, it's the anniversary of the terrorist attack in the kibbutz’s and where people were slaughtered in the Nova music festival. So, there were no attacks, no rockets launched by Israel on October 7th or October 8th or October 9th. The response came after that, as we know. So, this is an anniversary of 1200 people losing their lives. And that's why the protests shouldn't go ahead. And you would only be protesting the anniversary of that loss of life if you were trying to be provocative or difficult. If you were marking the anniversary of the Holocaust, people would be outraged. And I just think it's completely unacceptable that people would be using this opportunity to essentially rub, you know, I just think they're compounding the grief of people who have lost lives. And it's completely unacceptable.
ABO: Yeah, I mean, Pete, I guess despite all of that, they are still going ahead. I mean, there's nothing we can do to stop it. So, it's really just about upholding the peaceful intended nature of it.
DUTTON: Well, just again, Sarah, I mean, why would people why would people want to do this? And I think there are people within the community, leaders so-called within the community, who should show greater sensitivity and there are other dates that they can commemorate. But October 7th is an anniversary where 1200 people were killed by a terrorist organization and people who were sympathizers to the terrorist organization in this country, frankly, are at odds with our values and our rule of law.
ABO: And, Bill, there are obviously significant sensitivities around this. And as we know, the tensions are escalating currently in the Middle East. There's a lot of heat in the community, and it seems little is being done to sort of turn down that temperature. Is the government concerned that these protests may cause further rifts in the community?
BILL SHORTEN, MINISTER FOR THE NDIS AND GOVERNENT SERVICES: Well, I agree with a fair bit of what Peter was saying there. October the 7th was a massacre of Israelis. Hamas crossed the border. They killed young people at a concert. They committed shocking crimes. They kidnapped people. They sexually abused people. I don't know what someone who's - I don't know why someone would protest about that or be in some fashion being seen to lend their weight to it. I mean, we are a free country. We don’t want to become like the countries that we criticize. But I just think on October the 7th, that was a massacre of innocent people. Now, there might be some people watching who say, oh, what about, you know, my side of the argument and my hurt and my pain. I accept that, but one, you've got to keep it peaceful. Two, why do it on the day where - you know, if you really think that Hamas was right. I do not understand how you think. I do not understand how people would want to celebrate Hamas’ actions.
ABO: Yeah.
SHORTEN: So yeah, but I think most Australians don't want to see these arguments from overseas coming to these shores. They certainly expect it to be peaceful. And I'll just say to any protesters, if you think somehow, you're convincing or changing anyone's mind, think again.
ABO: It is truly horrific, that's for sure. The fresh wave of attacks that we're seeing, bill in Lebanon at the moment. The UN has called this truly catastrophic. We know that the Australian government is doing what it can, deploying the RAAF planes there to try and evacuate some. How is that all tracking at the moment?
SHORTEN: Yeah. I want to thank our people in the Australian Defence Force. We have military resources to help evacuate people pre-positioned in Cyprus. I know the government's assisted people on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday to get commercial flights out. I know there'll be opportunities on Saturday for 500 Australian citizens and immediate family members. But also, I have to say that the Prime Minister and the government has been saying since last November, please do not go to Lebanon. Whilst it might have been a surprise on which particular day the fighting escalated, the point is there was a big chance the fighting was going to escalate. So please get out now. Do not go to Lebanon. Please get out now. The Australian Government has a phone number. I think it's 6261 3305. 6261 3305. But yeah, just let's get out of there. It's just - there's nothing going to be good about being in Lebanon right now.
ABO: Yeah. I think both sides are in agreement on that. Look, it's all very heavy and really tragic and awful. So, let's focus on something a little bit different now because this weekend of course we have the big NRL grand final decider. It's less than 48 hours away with the Storm taking on the Panthers. Pete, I wanted to ask you. I mean, seeing as you're single handedly responsible for the turning of the political tide in Victoria, you would, of course, be backing the Storm right now, right?
DUTTON: Well, I've picked. I've picked Penrith, I think. Just an amazing -
ABO: What? Pete.
DUTTON: They are an amazing team. They are an amazing team.
ABO: You need to win Melbourne over mate, come on.
DUTTON: I’m still celebrating the Lions win. I'm still, I'm still - every Victorian was going against the New South Wales team last weekend. So, they were all on the Lions and we were on a unity ticket. So, this week - you know I just think I mean storms had had an incredible season as well. But I just think Penrith will be too strong.
ABO: Billy, surely you've got the storm, right?
SHORTEN: Yeah. No, I think the Storm’s a really well-run club. I've been lucky enough to have a bit to do with them over the journey and, you know they did beat Penrith in 2020. Craig Bellamy, ten grand finals. Penrith is a really strong team. One thing's for sure. The two best teams are playing in the grand final. But, you know, Pete, there was that chance for you to sort of cement the deal in Victoria, but given two choices -
ABO: I know, I gave him an opportunity.
SHORTEN: But you went the wrong way, I know
ABO: He didn't take it.
.
SHORTEN: Sarah just laid it out in the red carpet. I don't know. I don't know.
DUTTON: Hey, Bill, I'm just glad that you know there's an NRL team in in Victoria. Well done.
ABO: We couldn't leave this chat without a sledge. Right? Okay.
SHORTEN: That's good. And do you know what? Even though we're not an NRL, even though we're not an NRL state, we can still win the flag. I love it. When Victorians turn their mind to something. We're unstoppable.
ABO: Yes. Let's go with that.
SHORTEN: It's actually the third Queensland team anyway.
ABO: Thank you both very much for joining us.
