E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2GB BEN FORDHAM LIVE
WEDNESDAY, 19 AUGUST 2020

SUBJECT: Hekmatullah release.

BEN FORDHAM, HOST: Now, Hekmatullah, the Afghani soldier who killed three Aussie troops, Private Robert Poate, Lance Corporal Rick Milosevich and Sapper James Martin, they were playing cards in 2012 in their barracks in Afghanistan when Hekmatullah slaughtered them. He was pretending to be on our side. And thanks to a prisoner swap deal arranged by the Trump administration, he's set to taste freedom. Or is he? There's a last ditch attempt by Australia and France to keep Hekmatullah and four other prisoners behind bars. And Prime Minister Scott Morrison has raised the issue directly with President Donald Trump. Senior Labor MP Bill Shorten wants to see the PM go even harder. Mr Shorten knows the family of Private Robert Poate, and says what's happening is a national disgrace. He joins us on the line. The Labour MP, former Opposition Leader Bill Shorten. Good morning to you.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good morning, Ben.

FORDHAM: Scott Morrison seems to be going pretty hard on this.

SHORTEN: Well, I'm pleased if they're going as hard as they can. But I've been in touch with the families, and the families haven't been told what's been going on. So, listen, I want to trust how they make the omelette, but I need this omelette made. We need it done. There's no way that we shouldn’t be telling our ally, who we stand alongside with in conflict, that they should not be greenlighting, the release of this murderer.

FORDHAM: But I think that you in furious agreement with the Prime Minister and everyone else in Australia on that, and on the issue of them not briefing the family, you know, as a former party leader, that if you go briefing the family members on every development, then all of a sudden it gets out in the media. And, of course, then the Trump administration hears about it and then they turn around to Australia and say, hang on a moment. I thought our discussions were supposed to be private.

SHORTEN: Well, first of all, this decision obviously not briefing the family on every development and not really talking to them at all over a number of years. So I'll take the word of the family that they haven't been kept informed, that it isn't transparent. I think also you and I know, Ben, that sometimes governments can say to the media, just you leave it to us. You don't need to know too much. And on this one, I don't think that the American administration necessarily responds to ‘softly, softly’. I think the pressure does need to be put on them. There's veterans who are deeply frustrated. They thought Hekmatullah had been executed, now they find out that this guy's a potential prisoner swap. Now, I'd be really pleased if both Australia and France were able to stop Taliban gunmen who killed troops from our countries, but they shouldn't be released. But sometimes you've got to you've got to draw attention to these issues. Otherwise, deals get done and everyone finds out after the event at the wrong things happened.

FORDHAM: Oh, I respect the fact that you're going in to bat for the family of Private Robert Poate and you should do so, you've known the family for some years. But I think it's unfair to say that Scott Morrison's going softly, softly on this. There's no evidence to support that.

SHORTEN: Well, I have to say that until the last 48 hours. I'm afraid that the families hadn't been told. - (audio disruption) – matter of course, for this guy to be released. Again, to return to what I said a little earlier, to me, what matters is the outcome. And if the government secures the outcome that the Americans don't release or don't authorise the release of this killer of Australian diggers, that's good. First to say well done. But I have to say that all of the signs that was going in the wrong direction.

FORDHAM: And you're saying that the family of Private Robert Poate have been seeking answers from the federal government and they've been brushed?

SHORTEN: Yes, I'm saying that Private Poate’s family - and I suspect others, but I've got the best knowledge in terms of Private Poate’s family, that any contact they've had is a contact they've had to initiate with the government. It hasn't been initiatives going in the opposite direction. This is deeply distressing. I spoke to the family of a veteran who served with Sapper Martin. They reached out to me in the last two days. They've been deeply traumatised and frustrated that people don't seem to be taking an interest in this issue. So, first to say happy if the government's going to get the outcome we want. But sometimes Ben, in this business, just like a whole lot of other issues and take up, if you don't take up the issue well, then it just doesn't happen.

FORDHAM: I think you also know, though, deep down, don't you, that Scott Morrison will be fighting very hard to make sure that this bastard never released. You know that.

SHORTEN: Well, I have to say that sometimes individuals get crunched for what people perceive to be the bigger picture. I know that Scott Morrison, if he's doing this, is doing the right thing. But I tell you, speaking to the people on the ground, speaking to the families, that communication has not been clear.

FORDHAM: Okay, well, look, I wouldn't mind speaking to Hugh Poate if that's at all possible at some stage, but thank you very much for jumping on the line this morning.

SHORTEN: Yeah, and good on you, if we're getting outcomes that's what matters. Excellent.

FORDHAM: Thanks a lot. Bill Shorten, senior Labor MP, former opposition leader. He's known the Poate family for several years. So he's going into bet for them. I do think we need to be realistic here about the role of Scott Morrison. He's raised it with Donald Trump. And Scott Morrison will be doing everything in his power to make sure that this scumbag is never released.