E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2GB AFTERNOONS WITH DEBORAH KNIGHT
THURSDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: NDIS Watchdog oversight failures; Scott Morrison targeting Annastacia Palaszczuk.

DEBORAH KNIGHT, HOST: There's no doubt that the most vulnerable Australians, the elderly and the disabled, a lot of them are falling through the cracks. Now, COVID is highlighting a lot of the failings within the aged care system, and a lot of that is being brought to bear as part of the Royal Commission that's underway at the moment. And it's also highlighting serious problems with the disability sector. Reports today that the disability watchdog has issued one fine, just one, and banned a single NDIS provider over the past two years. And that's despite more than 8000 complaints. Now, we hear from you all the time on this, when we talked about the NDIS, some of the shocking experiences you've had. So I thought we'd take a closer look at this today. Bill Shorten is the Shadow Minister for the NDIS and Shadow Minister for Government Services. He's on the line for us now. Bill, thanks for joining us.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good afternoon, Deb.

KNIGHT: It's hard to believe, 8000 complaints to the disability watchdog and one fine. How does that work?

SHORTEN: Well, the parliament does allow some scrutiny, so we issued a question on notice where you write the question and the department are given a certain amount of time has to answer it. So we asked, we weren't expecting this answer. We said how many complaints and how many fines. And they said there has been 8000 plus complaints. But you could have knocked us over with a feather when we found out there's only been one fine issued in two years. I mean, a speed camera on a busy corner issues more fines in an hour.

KNIGHT: And what are the complaints that are being made about the NDIS to the disability watchdog?

SHORTEN: Neglect, harm, people concerned if carers are doing the right thing, people concerned they’re not getting the right attention.

KNIGHT: So these are serious issues.

SHORTEN: They’re serious issues and there are people who are vulnerable. We've seen two cases, one in South Australia and one in Sydney, where people, in the case of the South Australian lady, she was stuck in a cane chair and she had no one other than this sole carer. And she was eating, sleeping and toileting in this chair and in the end she was admitted to hospital and she died there. This is shocking neglect. There was another man in Sydney, who had been refused his appeal on his NDIS plan, and no one ever came to see him. And then a couple of months later, he was found dead. So, I mean, that's the extreme stuff. But I think that's happening more than we care to admit. And the Government always sort of looks like they've been spanked on the bottom, they have that outrage your child gets when they get spanked on the bottom. But it's much more serious than that. I mean, as soon as you make a complaint about them, the Government says, well, we're doing something and we're rolling out the NDIS, which is good. There's 400,000 people get packages, which is good. But there are complaints. These are vulnerable people, and this Government really shouldn't need a cattle prod to take action.

KNIGHT: On more than 200 occasions, providers failed to notify the watchdog of the death of a person within five days. I mean, that beggars belief.

SHORTEN: That's just a dysfunctional system. There’s no satisfactory explanation for that, is there?

KNIGHT: And it has been dysfunctional from the start, because the fundamental flaws of the NDIS, which was established by the Gillard government, they've been raised from day one. And in terms of ensuring that we make this system work because it is essential, it is needed within this country, what do we do? Do we need to rip it up and start again? How do we improve this system?

SHORTEN: To be fair to Julia Gillard, she had just started rolling into two areas, but the current government have been in for seven years. You know, at a certain point, they can't keep pretending they're a new government.

KNIGHT: It doesn't matter who's at fault. We just need to get it sorted, don't we?

SHORTEN: That’s correct - but I just wanted to say that. If you want to get to solutions, it's about putting people back at the centre of decision making. This is a world leading scheme, and I don't want to go back to what there was before. But what we've got to do is, it's become very bureaucratic and there's no consistency in decision making, decisions take too long. If you are filling in a plan for someone is profoundly disabled, you've got to jump through a lot of hoops. But at any stage if you have a decision that's rejected, you've got to keep chasing them. There's no timeframes on the authority to make decisions in a timely fashion. There's been a review of this lady Ann-Marie Smith’s tragic death, and they've made it clear they've got some good recommendations there. If you are a person with disability who's vulnerable to harm or neglect, in other words, if you're really vulnerable, that should be identified at the start of your plan, and there should be no vulnerable NDIS participant who has a sole carer providing services. And I also think that we could establish community visitor schemes. These have happened periodically in states, where you get volunteers, there’s people with time on their hands and want to help, they go and visit the person.

KNIGHT: That face to face contact.

SHORTEN: It helps with that sense of isolation, but it’s a second pair of eyes. Most people in this sector are working really hard, and there are a lot of success stories. But these are vulnerable people and it's not acceptable to have, you know, a shrug of the shoulders and say, oh, well, this will happen. That's not the way we should look at it.

KNIGHT: A couple of quick things. The government's pushing for a gas-led recovery out of COVID and the ALP, you seem to be a bit all over the place on this, what you want to do with energy policy. Jobs are important, too, aren't they?

SHORTEN: Yes. Well, first of all, talk about all over the place, this is the 19th energy policy the government's announced. I mean, remember Malcolm Turnbull had plans, and so this is the latest one. Gas is a part of our energy mix. No question, it's necessary to manufacturing. I think that we have to make sure that with any gas resources in Australia, not only are they extracted in an environmentally appropriate manner, but that the gas which we extract is prioritised for Australian consumers and Australian business. I think we also need to make sure that we're putting downward pressure on gas prices. And any environmental debate, you know, we went through the last election and one of their good scare campaigns, or effective, I should say not good, scare campaigns the government ran was saying that if you act on climate, it'll jeopardise jobs. So I think the lesson from that is to put jobs at the centre of any -

KNIGHT: But that wasn't a scare campaign, that's a reality, isn't it? I mean, jobs are crucial here, too. We've got we've got to take that into account.

SHORTEN: Yes they are. Jobs are crucial. And I do accept that some people accepted the argument that you can either be for the environment or you can be for jobs, but you can't be for both. And I don't agree with that. I've seen lots of solar farms and lots of renewable energy projects, but gas and traditional energy still want to be part of the mix.

KNIGHT: And looking to Queensland, Annastacia Palaszczuk, do you reckon she's secretly glad that she can keep Albo out of the state in the lead up to the election on October 31?

SHORTEN: No, I don't think that at all. I do think she's copped a fair bit of heavying, bullying from the Prime Minister.

KNIGHT: Hang on. She's the one accusing him of bullying.

SHORTEN: Yes, she has. I think she has received that from the Prime Minister. I agree with her on that.

KNIGHT: So she’s - you reckon she's been bullied? But she says - I mean, he was asking her to help and to show some common sense in individual cases where family members can't go to see the funeral of their father. They can't go and see loved ones who are dying. I mean, that's not bullying, is it?

SHORTEN: I think on an individual matter, you don't have to say that's bullying. But I think there's been a general tone. I mean, Tasmania, South Australia, the Liberal states with fairly strict border laws, they don't seem to attract Mr Morrison's same sense of outrage, do they?

KNIGHT: Well, I don't know if intervening has to be considered bullying.

SHORTEN: No, I agree with you that some interventions legitimate. But when it becomes a repeated pattern - I don't know, what would you call it?

KNIGHT: Well, I'd call it the Prime Minister taking action and leading.

SHORTEN: It's funny isn’t it, when he thinks the State Premiers should do something; he's taking action and leading. We've got between 30 and 100,000 people trapped overseas who can't come home, what’s he doing on that?

KNIGHT: Well they’ve increasing the cap from 4000 a week to 6000.

SHORTEN: But the point is we've been banging on about this for weeks and months about this problem.

KNIGHT: And they've taken action.

SHORTEN: And I think you guys have covered it too.

KNIGHT: Well, we have. And that will be ratified by cabinet national cabinet tomorrow. So hopefully, as you say, we'll achieve that if getting the Aussies home, which is the outcome we need. Bill Shorten, we thank you for joining us today. Thanks so much.

SHORTEN: Lovely to talk to you. Thanks for being interested in people with disabilities, too.

KNIGHT: Absolutely. It's an important issue that has to be covered. Good on you, Bill Shorten there on the line from Melbourne, which is still in lockdown, by the way. But they have at least turned a bit of a corner with those COVID numbers, which is good news.