E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
5AA MORNINGS WITH LEON BYNER
FRIDAY, 28 AUGUST 2020

SUBJECTS: Robodebt; Victorian Stage 4 lockdown and recovery.

LEON BYNER, HOST: Now I’m going to talk with somebody who's been outspoken on a number of fronts. The Shadow Services Minister, Bill Shorten. Bill, it's good to have you on this morning. I want to ask you about a couple of things. First of all, where are we with Robodebt? Have all the people who were wrongly billed or paid and shouldn't have, have they been repaid yet?

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Not yet. There has been quite a lot of money, hundreds of million dollars, repaid. But no, not everyone's got their money. And of course, the class action starts on the 21st of September to try and get to the bottom of, has everyone been paid and whether or not people are entitled to interest. because the government just withheld their money for four years.

BYNER: Wouldn't it be in their interests with a civil action like this coming up, to get it all done and dusted before it all goes to court?

SHORTEN: I think they've tried to do that, so they can argue to the court there's no need for the class action, of course. I just don't think they can do that. I don't think they’d be able to find everyone who they illegally took money off in the first place. I also think what they're trying to do is minimise the court action because they weren't going to repay anyone any of the 720 million dollars they said they owed people, except for the fact that then the class action issued and then the government realised, oh, my God, we’re going to have to turn up to court and explain how we broke the law.

BYNER: Now, I’ve got to ask you this, and you know how the system works very well. If you are someone who was billed and you paid, should you do anything or should you just wait?

SHORTEN: Well, probably it's up to each individual to make their own decision. But I would probably join the class action. But as for the government, I mean, the problem is that if we just wait for the government they might determine they owe you X dollars, not Y dollars.

BYNER: OK. So this is my point. If there are lots of people who still haven't been refunded, who should they contact? What should they do?

SHORTEN: Well, you can contact Services Australia. You can also contact the class action people, and join the class action.

BYNER: So unless you do that, you could be waiting till the 12th of Never. Or you might get less than what you should have.

SHORTEN: The government, having realised, four and half years after they launched an illegal program raising money against the vulnerable, but I think the government is now trying to get the money back out the door. I mean, they would hardly get a public service medal for this because all they're doing is returning money to people who they should never have taken it off in the first place.

BYNER: All right. I want to ask you about your local electorate of Maribyrnong and what's happening in Melbourne, because we've now got lots of different diverse voices - the AMA, for example, this lockdown is creating - Michael Carr-Gregg, the well-known psychologist, has warned that mental health is really suffering badly, the Victorian economy, jobs - 400,000. Given you are somebody who's passionate about these issues. What is your observation of what's happening to the people of Melbourne?

SHORTEN: They'll get through it, but it's not straightforward or easy. And these lockdowns affect different people differently. So yes, I think Michael Carr-Gregg is right to observe mental health pressure on people.

BYNER: But what about people who lose jobs though, Bill?

SHORTEN: Well, that's a giant issue. The people I feel most keenly for are the small business, the sole traders and partnerships. They seem to have slipped between the cracks of various government programs of support.

BYNER: Do you think that the government in Victoria did the right thing by having a Stage 4 lockdown?

SHORTEN: Yeah, I do.

BYNER: You do?

SHORTEN: It has controlled the infection and spread rate. I mean, we were getting up to 700 plus cases. Now, I think today it's about 113 cases, a couple of people moving around has, I think -

BYNER: Yeah, but Peter Collignon from the Australian National University, made the point that they were getting those results from Level 3, not Level 4. So, again, when you did an interview on Sunrise recently, you seem to have a different view. Have you changed your mind?

SHORTEN: No, sorry, the question which I got asked on morning TV was about the announcement by the state government to extend a state of emergency.

BYNER: What do you think of that?

SHORTEN: Well, I think that got people jumping. I think that surprised people. People were, I think the term I used, were freaking out. As I understand,what the government was trying to do is that they need to pass the law to be able to give them the powers to get people, infectious people, to self-isolate.

BYNER: But Bill, they could do that every month, it would achieve the same thing. But the message it sent out by wanting a year was terribly damaging to investment in Victoria and the people working and living in your seat.

SHORTEN: It upset a lot of people

BYNER: Yeah.

SHORTEN: And what I said is that the state government needed to come out and explain very clearly why, very clearly what it was about, and how this was a path towards getting out of the Stage 4. This is all part of post-Stage 4 lockdown, when we go back to Stage 3 and Stage 2 and normal life, hopefully.

BYNER: Given you've got a very senior position of respect within the Opposition, have you sought to have a conversation with the Victorian Premier about this?

SHORTEN: I've reached out to the state government, certainly on Monday afternoon and Tuesday I reached out to the state government and said, hey, whatever the purpose of the announcement on Monday was about the next 12 months in a state of emergency, I felt that the opposite effect had been achieved and that for a lot of people, they just thought this was the continuation of this Stage 4 lockdown for the next 12 months, and particularly justifiably, after having gone through the last few weeks, needed to have the situation clarified. Now, I think to be fair, the state government's done that during the week.

BYNER: Well, they've done it to a degree, but Bill, under duress because of the Victorian upper house, who weren't going to wear a year, but they might get six months. But I make a very simple point. You could keep extending this like we have, every month, if it's important. But asking for a year sends a really bad message to those people who rely on investment jobs and so on in your state.

SHORTEN: I can see that point of view, and I certainly heard it firsthand from people on this earlier this week. That's why I did say that Victoria should come out and I think explain what it was doing. I mean, I don't think any government has got this exactly right. But I'll give the Victorian Premier some credit, he fronts up every day, and he explains and he gives the news. The good news. The bad news.

BYNER: Well, one thing he doesn't do, and he's been roundly criticised for this, especially by the AMA and others, is talk about the pathway to recovery. Like, how many cases do you want before you go to this Stage or that Stage? None of that. No detail at all. None.

SHORTEN: Well, I understand what you're saying. Victorians are doing a mighty job, Melburnians in particular, because they're on the Stage 4. For myself, I know we've been locked down. We were a hotspot suburb, so we've been locked down now for 59 days in Stage 3 and Stage 4. People want to have some hope as well. And I'm not going to be an armchair critic and just sort of second guess everything that we're being told. But from my own experience, representing people who are trapped overseas or people who've lost jobs or grandparents who can't see their grandkids. People haven't been able to go to funerals. People who’ve lost people to COVID. I reckon that the more we can start talking about the way out, I think that’s the petrol that people need in their tank to continue the journey.

BYNER: Bill Shorten, thank you for coming on this morning. That's the Shadow Government Services Minister Bill Shorten, on a range of important issues.