E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
5AA MORNINGS WITH LEON BYNER
MONDAY, 13 JULY 2020

SUBJECT: Robodebt.

LEON BYNER, HOST: The Government spent almost 50 million dollars on the Robodebt cleanup operation. This was when they were sending out, they've got this thing called an algorithm and it just generated letters, and many of the letters were inaccurate. But, gee, a lot of people got very upset. And they, in fact, were told they had debts or they should check their numbers. And, of course, the whole thing's a bungle. But here is the big rub. Services Australia are saying that it started to pay back a small number of the unlawful debts that were raised under the system. But it's going to take until November of this year to fix it. November. Now, I don't have to tell you that if you or I owe money to the state, will they give you til November? Let's ask Shadow Government Services Minister Bill Shorten. Have you got til November, Bill?

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: No. And not only do you have to repay the money you owe the Government, but after a certain point, you've got to pay interest on it. On top of it, seven and a half per cent is the general interest charged, that the Commonwealth will levy on a range of debts that individual people owe the Government. But the Government has unjustly, unlawfully collected money, hundreds of millions of dollars over four plus years. And not only are they taking their time about repaying some of it, but they're not saying they’re going to pay any interest on the money which they took off people when they had no right to do so.

BYNER: And what's happened with the class action? That's a separate thing here that's still got to play out, hasn't it?

SHORTEN: Yes. It goes to trial on the 21st of September, although knowing this Government, no doubt they'll try and delay the class action. But I think it's slated for three weeks, starting the 21st of September. What's interesting, Leon, is that seventy thousand Australians have now registered with Gordon Legal. So this makes it the biggest class action in Australian history.

BYNER: Seventy thousand, god. So the question remains. They were pretty quick to get these letters out, and telling you to check your information and people were paying because they were afraid that if they'd made an error, in many cases, they’d get pinged so to avoid it, they paid and they didn't need to. So, what's the official reason why they aren't doing this sooner? Because it didn't take them that long to get the letters out, did it?

SHORTEN: No doubt they’ll just blame Labor, even though we haven't been the Government for seven years. In all seriousness, I don't know. They say that they are required to only pay up to seven thousand dollars in any one instalment.

BYNER: Under what law is that?

SHORTEN: No, they just say that's been custom and practise. I mean, when Clive Palmer, the mining magnate, couldn't pay his workers, the taxpayer had to pay 65 million dollars to step in the shoes of Clive Palmer. So Clive Palmer got that 65 million dollars, he eventually has had to repay some of that to the Commonwealth. So, for Clive Palmer, you can get the Government to pay 65 million dollars. But if you're Bill or Betty Bloggs of downtown Adelaide, the suburbs of Adelaide, you just have to wait. They can't pay you more than seven thousand. It's ridiculous.

BYNER: So, is there anything more that can be done on this?

SHORTEN: Pressure. The reality is that what has dislodged the Government to finally admit that it's unlawful was a court action run by the Victorian Legal Aid Authority and now the class action. I think it's the prospect that senior public servants, perhaps even Ministers, will have to give evidence from the 21st September, is what forced the Government into late one Friday afternoon, announcing with the hope they wouldn't get too much media, that they're going to refund 721 million dollars to three hundred and seventy three thousand people. We'll just keep the pressure on. This Government, when it comes to admitting its own culpability, has to be dragged kicking and screaming. You see their fingernail marks on the marble of the Parliament foyer, as they’re dragged to an outcome.

BYNER: Bill, do you know what the average amount of debt repayment is on this, just as a matter of interest?

SHORTEN: Two thousand dollars.

BYNER: Two grand.

SHORTEN: Nineteen hundred, I think is the figure I've seen.

BYNER: Well, if they're saying we don't pay more than seven, it's well short of that. Why can't they do that quickly?

SHORTEN: Listen, these guys, it's not a priority for them. I mean, it’s why people don't like politics. It's a sense that when it's the priority of politicians, then it gets done quickly. When it's the priority of ordinary people who are unjustly levied money, debts against them, which they never owed. Steve Georganas has explained that a whole lot of people in his seat, they need this money. They should never have not had the use of the money. This is very important to understand with Robodebt. And you and Steve Georganas and others have said this. This is not taxpayer money being given to people. This is the people's own money being returned, after the government unlawfully raised it from them up to four plus years ago.

BYNER: Bill, thanks for coming on today. That's the Shadow Government Services Minister.