E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
5AA RADIO ADELAIDE
TUESDAY 12 MAY, 2020

SUBJECTS: National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS); the tragic death of Ann-Marie; Disability and social isolation; Quality of care.

WILL GOODINGS, CO-HOST: We turn out attention to a story out of the weekend that frankly, we have few words in the English language that are able to describe aptly the depravity and disgusting nature of what happened with regards to poor Ann-Marie Smith, just fifty-four years of age, she had cerebral palsy, she was on an NDIS funded support plan, not quite sure what she got for that. It wasn’t a great deal of care. She died at the Royal Adelaide Hospital last month from septic shock, multiple organ failure, severe pressure sores and malnutrition. The bit that stands out from the story for mine is the litany of things that go to how uncared for this person was, that she sat for a year in the same woven cane chair, that was simultaneously her bed and her toilet. The Federal Shadow NDIS Minister is Bill Shorten, he’s calling for an inquiry, he’s joining us on 5AA Breakfast now, Bill Shorten, good morning to you.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good morning gentlemen, it's a heartbreaking story, it’s just so terrible.

DAVID PENBERTHY, CO-HOST: Well Bill you’ve been a long-time advocate for the rights of people living with disabilities, and the existence of the NDIS is something that you, you championed for a long time. I can’t remember you specifically coming on our show here in Adelaide to talk about cases such as these, and I make that point because, for it to attract Federal attention, it says something about the magnitude of this case doesn’t it?

SHORTEN: When you read the facts that we’ve been presented with, it is so heartbreaking and so frightening that it could happen, that someone could be receiving care as we were told they were and yet, clearly not. What it does remind me of though is, people with disabilities are vulnerable and this is every parent's nightmare of someone with disability, who is going to look after their adult child when they’re no longer there? And how this could be allowed to happen I have no idea, but it has happened and it also worries me, is this really the only case in Australia?

GOODINGS: Well to that end, based on what you’ve read thus far, the carer involved employed by Integrity Care SA has been sacked, is this, the NDIS was set up so there would be more money available for these sorts of services, we should be, the system should be flush compared to where it had been previously, is there a systemic error here or is there just, the reality is there is going to be carers that aren’t up to scratch?

SHORTEN: Well with a system like this, we hear the company’s blaming the carer and the police and the coroner will get to the bottom of that, but it does tell me that if an individual carer is not doing the job, then we need a system of checking don’t we? So because, if you’ve got a vulnerable person getting care in their own home, that’s the best place, it’s a good place to have care, so long as the care is actually happening. So, I think that the system of how do we know that what we are being told is happening, is happening? Because when you are a person with severe disability, you can’t get on the phone and ring 5AA and make a complaint, so how do know the care that is being promised and paid for is actually being delivered? So regardless of whether or not the individual carer has done the wrong thing, the very sensible suggestion that I’ve seen out of South Australia has been from Nat Cook, my fellow Labor spokesperson, is we need a community visitor program, and what that would be is, maybe it’s a bit too early to say what the solution is, and we need more facts, I acknowledge that. It just strikes me that if you’ve got vulnerable people who can’t care for themselves, if they've been locked away - during the virus a lot of people would be locked away, that’s not what happened here, but a lot of vulnerable people haven't been able to get to day services, it just seems to me we should have a visitor program, and it’s happened before, where someone other than the carer is just popping in to check how they are. How this could go for a year, this is horrific, it’s a horror story.

PENBERHTY: One easy initial fit would be presumably Bill, when you look at the fact that this company that was running the so-called care, Integrity Care, who were providing the support workers, they’ve got a hundred staff. Even if you shifted from the model where clearly you have one support worker for one person with special needs and had like a rolling roster where at least once a week a second staff member could go and check on the person, it might actually be a bit of stopgap?

SHORTEN: Well a lot of carers form close and meaningful relationships with people they’re looking for, so it’s not like a drive-through fast-food store where anyone turns up, it’s a big thing to invite someone into your home. But having said that you’re right, there has to be some checking and auditing that what you are paying for is what you are getting, now I don’t know if I’ll say here it’s just one lone carer who’s let the system down, I don’t know, as we’ve said the police and the coroner will get to the bottom of that. But I just think, when you’ve got vulnerable people, I think we need to involve the community in making sure they’re not isolated to the point of being unsafe.

PENBERTHY: What’s the state of play with the enquiry that you’re pushing for Bill Shorten, is there anything from the Federal Government?

SHORTEN: Well, the Federal Minister said ‘oh we‘ve got a Quality and Safeguard Commission, and they’ll look at it’, But I, again, I think that is unsatisfactory, sometimes you just hear a story that is so shocking that you can’t just - surely doesn’t that just warrant a stronger, more profound reaction? Like the facts are horrifying, you don’t have to be you know, a bleeding heart or just someone who fires up over everything that ever happened to say that in this case, it’s so bad. It’s a nightmare to think that behind the walls of a perfectly, nice external looking house, in a perfectly reasonable suburb, in a modern city in Australia, that you’ve just got this amazing degree of neglect.

PENBERTHY: We'd like to think that on some level, the normal checks and balances that exist weren't designed to, weren’t designed to review these sorts of scenarios. They’re so beyond the pale, they shouldn't be within the realm of the normal process to make sure that they're doing a good job.

SHORTEN: It’s not business as usual.

PENBERTHY: Yeah exactly.

SHORTEN: It’s a catastrophic failure, so I’m dissatisfied with the government's response, when you are the minister, you can’t just say ‘oh well, we‘ve got a system to check this out’, you know that system was in place when this happened. Now, again, it's not a matter of even, you know, most people are 99.999% per cent of people, if they knew this was happening would stop it. But I'm not even trying to say that about the government, but where you’ve got vulnerable people with high needs getting packages of tendered care - see the other thing is, one thing is the checking system, but the other thing is, which gets me thinking is what other rip-offs are happening? Disability carers, they’re underpaid, they’re hard-working, they don't go into the job for the money, because the money is so low. I reckon just about every disability carer I’ve met, would be just practically weeping at this, at what's been revealed, because that's not what organisations and disability carers do. Regardless of all the good intentions in the world, something catastrophic has gone wrong, so business as usual is not satisfactory. It doesn't do this woman's memory the respect that her tragic treatment in life, at least in death, something needs - you can't just continue like this.

PENBERTHY: Well said, before we just let you go, it is twelve months since the federal election, we’re actually asking people this morning to give the PM a score on his report card for twelve months in, would you like to participate? [All laugh].

SHORTEN: It's sort of a change of gear there gentlemen, it’s good to see the hard-hitting [hosts laugh]- it doesn’t matter how much you agree with me on the previous one, bam [all laugh].

GOODINGS: It’s what we do, we can’t be nice the whole time.

SHORTEN: Listen with the health crisis I’m pleased for Australia, we are getting through it so it’s obvious the government is part of that, yeah, I’ll take a pass on the rest of it.

PENBERTHY: What about what about the performance of the Opposition Leader? I don’t think you ever had as low of an approval rating as today's Newspoll.

SHORTEN: Some very wise person said that Opposition Leader is one of the hardest jobs, if not the hardest job in Federal politics, so I think Albo is doing okay. That’s how I would have liked people to have treated me so I can at least say that about everyone else.

GOODINGS: Appreciate your time this morning, thanks for joining us.

SHORTEN: Yeah, thanks for taking interest in that, it’s just shocking. Alright gentlemen.

GOODINGS: The Shadow NDIS spokesperson Bill Shorten, I suspect there's not a person listening who thinks there isn't a grounds for a definitive inquiry into this particular case.

PENBERTHY: That’s the reason I asked that first question, because often stories come and go and often stuff happens in South Australia that barely registers at all, it’s not like Shorten is taking an interest in this because he thinks there is some sort of political gain from it, he is doing it because he is genuinely disgusted as we all are by those circumstances, it just such a sad, sad state of affairs, isn't it?

GOODINGS: Certainly is.