E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO ADELAIDE
FRIDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: Federal review of Ann-Marie Smith case

JULES SCHILLER, HOST: We were waiting for this federal investigation into the death of Adelaide woman Ann-Marie Smith, a death that traumatised so many of us, someone who experienced a shocking degree of neglect and was left to die with malnutrition and pressure sores, something that should never happen in a country like Australia. Well, former Judge Alan Robertson has handed down his report. I'll go through some of the findings next. And then the Shadow Minister for the NDIS will comment on it, Bill Shorten. So the federal investigation has recommended that the National Disability Insurance Scheme Commission should act earlier to identify Australians with disabilities who are vulnerable to harm and neglect, like Ann-Marie Smith. Former Judge Alan Robertson also recommended the NDIS ensure participants have more than one care worker. Which, of course, would have had such an influence in this case. And the Commission should consider forming its own community visitors scheme to monitor such people. It says that the NDIS had an inability to assess participant data in real time. They were basically relying on care providers like Integrity Care to provide them with information. They didn't really have an ability to get beyond that. And the NDIS also needs to be less transactional and more person-centred, which is quite damning when you think about it. Bill Shorten is the Shadow Minister for the NDIS and he joins me now. Welcome, Bill Shorten.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good afternoon, Jules.

SCHILLER: Do you agree with the findings of this investigation?

SHORTEN: Yes, I've had a chance to briefly read it, it’s 80 plus pages. But the 10 recommendations are vital - dare I say, they're obvious. And so I'm grateful to the work of Mr Alan Robertson, senior counsel. He's been polite in his language, but it's clear that this disability watchdog is understaffed, underfunded, and I think that these are really valuable changes which could prevent what we saw happen to our Ann-Marie happening again.

SCHILLER: It's a bit damning when you write that care plans are transactional and they're meant to be person-centred. Does this mean that the whole spirit of the NDIS has become just an efficiency program rather than a people program?

SHORTEN: Yeah, I think that's a pretty good summary. That is my concern. In a related area, the government's just proposed these new independent assessments, of all NDIS plans, when they're done. I'm worried this is just a cookie cutter and razor gang where in 20 minutes independent assessments will be done and they'll just try and fit people's life stories into cutting their individual programs. So I am worried that the personal spirit and personal, individualised nature of the scheme is being undermined. In the case of Ann-Marie Smith and of course, tragically, this has come too late for her, the fact that no vulnerable NDIS participant should have a sole carer providing services, the fact that we've decided that, well that's been recommended, is overdue. But I think it's an unarguable point. I think that the Commission should be identifying earlier people with disability who are vulnerable. I think that they should establish their visitor schemes, which I know plenty of people were talking about. And I think the fact that the government is now saying we want to hire another 100 people because the watchdog's overworked with clunky I.T. systems, this is alarming. Why is no one ever responsible for running something badly?

SCHILLER: It seemed that they were relying on the care providers, for the data on the participants, that they were almost blind. I mean, if you had a a care provider who was either deceptive or incompetent, they're not going to fess up to that to the agency. I mean, that's a worry, isn't it, Bill Shorten?

SHORTEN: It is. I get the sense that it's a very sort of paper-based safety system. In other words, if the care provider can put the right paper in, then it gets ticked. And the lack of a spot check program means that the care provider can put in the report. And just really we have to take their word for it. And these are vulnerable people. You can do an assessment much earlier in the process to say this person's particularly vulnerable, they might be immobile or might have communication issues, and also not just relying on one interface. You know, having safeguards systems. This shouldn't be something which we need this report to have identified. And so I'm grateful for it. I would expect and hope that the government just says yes. I mean, if you can work this out and I can work it out and I suspect any person on the street who gives this 10 minutes consideration can read these recommendations and say, tick. I think the government just needs to adopt them fully.

SCHILLER: When you read this report, Bill Shorten, I mean, you worked very hard on the NDIS.

SHORTEN: Helped create it.

SCHILLER: Create it, yes. Is it the organisation that you envisaged?

SHORTEN: That’s a big question. In part, it is. I mean, it's a unique scheme in the world, the idea that we could have properly resourced individualised packages of support. But I have to say that seven years later, under this government, I feel that it's being compressed back into just a budget efficiency program. You know, where there's cuts, we've got to cut this, one size fits all. I feel that the personalised spirit of it is diminished. I’ve spoken to since after the election and re-immersing myself in this area, literally thousands of families. And some are having great stories, but some are just getting the run-around bureaucratically. And of course, I think the Ann-Marie tragedy, I think that's the giant issue in the NDIS. Are we making sure that the vulnerable are being protected? And I think that's a giant issue here. No question in my mind.

SCHILLER: Well, Bill Shorten, thanks for your time. We'll see if - we did invite Stuart Robert onto the program, but he didn't respond to our request for an interview. So thank you for giving up your time, Bill Shorten.

SHORTEN: No, Jules, and I know you take an interest in this, just to people listening – the NDIS is a great thing. We've just got to make sure that it's accountable to the people, that the participants don't have to just fit into a bureaucracy. But thank you very much. Good evening.

SCHILLER: Thank you, Bill Shorten. Yes. As Bill said, we are judged by how we treat our most vulnerable. And many of us felt that as a society, we failed that test when it came to Ann-Marie Smith. But she wasn't the only vulnerable person that the NDIS has failed. But as Bill said, I think quite rightly, supporting a hell of a lot of people. And it is a world first. So there's a lot to like about the NDIS.