E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO ADELAIDE
THURSDAY, 13 AUGUST 2020
SUBJECTS: Ann-Marie Smith; Integrity Care ban; NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission.
DAVID BEVAN, HOST: News yesterday evening that the care provider for Ann-Marie Smith, that is Integrity Care, had been banned, had been banned from operating by the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission. Now, many of you might have been thinking for the last four months, why is it still operating? And last night you might have been thinking, well, why has it taken so very long to get a decision? Well, we put in calls to the Safeguards Commission, sent them an email, and they replied by saying “the NDIS Commission has been conducting an active investigation into Integrity Care since being notified of Ms Smith's death”. Remember, that's way back in April - “our investigation remains ongoing and as more information becomes available, the NDIS Commission will take decisions about any further regulatory actions”. Not sure what that means. As our (audio interrupted) Federal Government that administers the NDIS, and the response was “the Minister is unavailable tomorrow”, that's today, “I'll refer you”, says his minder, “to the NDIS Commission statement and note the ongoing police investigations, and we all think that it was absolutely shocking what happened”. Okay. In a moment, we're going to be discussing this with a number of people who've been very close to the operation and the setting up of the NDIS. But just to remind you, some of the really basic questions which remain unanswered and have remained unanswered for months now. Here's an interview we did with Stuart Robert, he’s the Federal Minister for National Disability Insurance Scheme. And we did this interview on the 27th of May, 2020. We still don't have an answer to these questions.
(PREVIOUS INTERVIEW, MAY 27)
BEVAN: And you say the Agency was checking in on her?
STUART ROBERT, MINISTER FOR NDIS: The answer is yes, but the extent to which, and the mechanisms, and how, that’ll all be, or that is, all the subject of the Quality and Safeguards Commission inquiry into this matter. And of course, South Australia Police are looking into it, as I believe is the Coroner, as is appropriate.
BEVAN: Minister, the police have told us that it appears as though she had been restricted to a cane chair for perhaps a year or more, and that that cane chair was her toilet - if the National Disability Insurance Agency was checking in on her, and you said they were, they would have noticed something, wouldn't they?
ROBERT: And that's why there's now an independent inquiry by the Quality and Safety Commission, which will be made public as much as possible, obviously.
BEVAN: But they just could not have been checking on her, because anybody, you wouldn't have to be properly trained, anybody checking in on Anne Marie Smith would have realised she was in dire straits.
ROBERT: Well, there’s three hundred sixty five thousand participants in the NDIS, so it’s a very large job. So the question is, to what extent did they check in, as just one of the questions that the inquiry would look into it. Was it a simple phone conversation? Were there attempts to visit, all of this we'll get to the bottom of, and make public.
BEVAN: Well, you've known about this for, what, two and a half weeks now?
ROBERT: So I was informed in the middle of May. That's right.
BEVAN: Okay, so you've known for about two and a half weeks and you're the Minister. That wouldn't be that hard to say I want to know by tomorrow, close business tomorrow, how many times did we check in on Ann- Marie Smith? Did you do that?
ROBERT: I did.
BEVAN: And what was the answer?
ROBERT: Well, I’m going to let the inquiry finish its work rather than drib and drab little pieces of information out.
BEVAN: Well, that's not a little piece of info. You know how often she was checked?
ROBERT: I do.
BEVAN: So you're not going to tell us?
ROBERT: I am going to wait till the inquiry produces all the information so all Australians could make proper judgements. We'll get to the bottom of it.
(END OF PREVIOUS INTERVIEW)
ALI CLARKE, HOST: Okay. Now, that was Stuart Robert, the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, a long time ago. Again, he has declined to come on the program tomorrow. We did also reach out to the State Disability Minister, Michelle Lensink. She couldn't be available for an interview, however, has given us a statement, part of which says, “we're being assured by the Commonwealth that all remaining Integrity Care clients are being supported in their transition to other service providers”. You mentioned the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission wouldn't talk to us. And we also, of course, went to Integrity Care.
BEVAN: No. Bill Shorten is the Shadow Minister for the NDIS, he joins us now. Good morning, Bill Shorten.
BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good morning.
BEVAN: How hard is it to get this information? And why should it be this hard?
SHORTEN: I don’t think it’s that hard at all, and it shouldn't be that hard. I was listening to that quite compelling interview that you did back on May 27, with Stuart Robert, the Government Minister, and it’s a highly unsatisfactory interview. You're quite right, if someone who is receiving federal government support, if I had the Minister, if someone's receiving federal government support and they die in the circumstances that were reported for Ann-Marie, you’d want to know really quickly what happened and why, and how do you make sure it's not happening elsewhere. So this report today, or the report yesterday and the banning of Integrity Care, it's too little, too late. Too late for Ann-Marie Smith. And it's too little really, it shouldn't take - up til yesterday, Integrity Care received the equivalent of a speeding fine. And I think it's only because there's a federal inquiry hanging over their head that the NDIS has put their skates on. But it’s completely unsatisfactory, it’s terrible.
CLARKE: Bill Shorten, can you explain to us why they can hand down a banning order, but that only takes effect on August the 21st? Now, the signs have been taken down from the front of the building, but that means that they could still actually keep caring for people, even though the Quality Commission has found, in their words, a number of contraventions that this carer has been charged with?
SHORTEN: Well that’s right, it’s not retrospective and they could still be in business, except just not an official NDIS provider. So I tell you what will help, a number of times Stuart Robert said, oh he didn't want to give dribs and drabs, blah blah blah, but they've now got the report, why don’t they release that? That's not just the banning order, but the reasons for the banning order, and the evidence. The Minister made a promise to you on your show, he said, oh, well, I don’t want to give out dribs and drabs, Australians should see all the information. OK. Well, let's see it.
BEVAN: The delay in actually closing the place down for a few more days seems to have something to do with transitioning people to alternate providers. But you'd think that would have been sorted out weeks ago.
SHORTEN: You’d think so. It’s almost like the clock starts running from today. But the clock's been running for months and months. So how much more time do they need to rectify the situation? I don't understand. It doesn't make sense. It seems pretty slack. It was shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
CLARKE: Well, with respect, you are the Shadow Minister for the NDIS. What are you going to do about it?
SHORTEN: We will attack the government. We’re going to continue to do what we've been doing, which is saying that the NDIS Commission, I think, is a toothless tiger. Figures emerged that they get about 10,000 cases a month. 10,000 cases a month, where there are complaints made to the Safeguards Commission. But they've only issued twenty three banning orders since its inception, since the Commission was created in 2018, so we'll keep putting pressure on the Government. Unfortunately, we're not the Government, so we can draw attention to it, and when there's a real tragedy, then it draws legitimate community interest and media attention. But we shouldn't let this fellow off the hook for such a limp response.
BEVAN: Bill Shorten, thanks for your time. Shadow Minister for the NDIS.
