E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC 730
MONDAY, 16 NOVEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: $1.2 billion Robodebt settlement; Labor’s climate change policy.

LAURA TINGLE, HOST: The Government's Robodebt scheme, which started as a budget saving measure in 2016, will now cost the Government at least 1.2 billion dollars, after it settled a class action over the matter today. The scheme compared income data from the Tax Office and Centrelink to automatically raised debts which in many cases didn't exist. We’ll come to the Shadow Government Services Minister Bill Shorten in a moment, but first, let's take a look back at what led to the class action.

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TINGLE: Bill Shorten, does this settlement mean that everyone will have been at least fully compensated? Who was involved?

BILL SHORTEN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES: This settlement is a big win for about 400,000 Australians who were illegally issued with Robodebt notices. So, I mean, the court and the lawyers are going to work through there the size of the group. It's about 400,000, I'm advised. It will mean that everyone there who was illegally served notice will be reimbursed.

TINGLE: So the Federal Government's made this settlement without admitting any actual liability. What does that tell us? That it's gone for a settlement rather than let them go to trial?

SHORTEN: Well, the lawyers for the class action and, you know, I thank Gordon Legal for what they've done, they've decided that it's worth the 1.2 billion dollars not to put the Government ministers in the dock, but for the Government to say that it doesn't admit liability, you know, a crocodile wouldn't swallow that. This Government and its lawyers are paying 1.2 billion dollars to 400,000 people in the biggest class action settlement ever, so they could avoid putting senior public servants and Government ministers in the witness box to find out who authorised the biggest illegal Government administration scheme in the history of Federation.

TINGLE: Does that mean that you would still be calling for a Royal Commission to find out what happened and why the Government continued with this scheme when it was unlawful?

SHORTEN: Today's ground-breaking class action settlement now makes it inevitable that Labor will push for a Royal Commission. We stated that policy during the Eden Monaro by-election. The fact that the Government would rather settle and pay 1.2 billion dollars than the truth of the illegality of actions of either ministers and senior public servants now means nothing less than the Royal Commission will suffice. And I make this point very clearly - a Royal Commission will explain to us, so never again will 400,000 ordinary people who are receiving a government payment get treated as criminals by their government.

TINGLE: One of the extraordinary things about this case is people say, well, is the Minister accountable? But there are at least five ministers who've been involved in the administration of this scheme, including the Prime Minister, who should be held accountable here?

SHORTEN: Well, there's either Mr Morrison when he was Treasurer, who started this poor blaming, poor shaming Robodebt scheme. There was Minister Fletcher then, of course, there's Minister Tudge, Minister Porter and Minister Robert. They've all had their fingerprints on this scheme. What amazes me is the fact that no Minister has resigned today shows you that ministerial responsibility in the Morrison government is dead. It's dead. How can they have to pay back 1.2 billion dollars, and apparently no one's to blame?

TINGLE: On another issue, do you regret the position Labor took to the last election on climate change, which involved a mid-term target of 40 per cent reductions by 2030?

SHORTEN: Oh, listen, there's been forests chopped down to analyse the last election. I think that we were right to have a policy on climate. I do think even though we were going to promote more jobs, I think the challenge is to communicate to Australians that having policies on climate should not be at the cost of jobs. And we've got to put jobs at the forefront of any policy. And, you know, I accept we've got to explain that longer and harder and as much as we can, that jobs and cheaper energy come from improving our mix of renewables.

TINGLE: Has Joe Biden's election changed the dynamics of this debate, do you believe?

SHORTEN: Oh, listen, I think Joe Biden won for a whole range of reasons. I think one of the reasons that Mr Biden was successful was that Americans were tired of Mr Trump. I'm not going to start analysing the entrails. But it's clear Mr Biden, one of his policies was climate and taking action on climate.

TINGLE: Joel Fitzgibbon says that Labor can't appeal to blue collar workers with its current policy position and your old union, the AWU, is calling for Labor to back the government's target of 28 per cent emissions reduction by 2030. Do you agree with them?

SHORTEN: Oh, listen, the party's going to work through its policies on climate. These are tough issues, there can be no question. But I think more and more around the world, we're seeing that people can have climate policies which generate jobs. Tonight, I'm focussed on our win on Robodebt and making sure the government is held to account. I'll leave it to all the pundits and the experts to keep working on our policies on climate.

TINGLE: Bill Shorten, thanks for your time tonight.

SHORTEN: Thank you, Laura.