E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS BREAKFAST
WEDNESDAY 5 AUGUST, 2020

SUBJECTS: JobCutter; National Integrity Commission; Victorian COVID outbreak

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: My next guest this afternoon is the Shadow Minister for Government Services and the National Disability Insurance Scheme, Bill Shorten. Bill Shorten, welcome.

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Good afternoon, Patricia.

KARVELAS: Firstly, is it right that the CEO of Australia Post has been stood aside during this investigation and will potentially lose her job over the purchase of these Cartier watches

SHORTEN: Well, I'm not going to pre-empt the investigation, but what I will say is that posties have been working harder than ever, especially during the pandemic and delivering massively increased parcels and mail. Customers are taking longer to get their mail. And then you've got this out of touch, sort of rewarding the officer class of Australia Post with medals and watches, and everyone else is doing all the grunt work. So it's out of touch.

KARVELAS: Okay, but how about if there were salaries or bonuses? So instead of three thousand dollar watches, there was a bonus for delivering a good deal, or whatever the reason was for actually rewarding these people. That's happened before. Not the same outrage. Is it just the optics, are bonuses are okay?

SHORTEN: I think it's optics and substance, isn't it? But what I want to know is why is it the CEO's been stood aside and the board? I mean, the board is like a branch meeting of the Liberal National Party. And they apparently, as I understand from media reports, they knew about the watches. So why does the woman CEO have to walk the Morrison plank? But all the men, the Liberal National Party men on the board, you know, nothing to see here. They're like the three wise monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.

KARVELAS: So you think a woman has been forced to take the fall for something, what, that you think the board should take responsibility for? Do you think that means she shouldn't take the fall?

SHORTEN: I think her gender is not the key issue. I think the issue is that if the board knew about this, why is the CEO being stood aside? That's a good question. I'll ask Mr Morrison why. Why is she stood aside, the CEO, but if the board gave this the tick what was their culpability in all this? But isn't this, you know, just the slow clap that we give the national Morrison government? Yet again, they are investigating themselves for perceived poor behaviour. I mean, this is why we need a National Integrity Commission, because people are sick of the antics. Politics gets a bad name because of the government. And the sooner we make a down payment to restore trust in our system and our politicians through a National Integrity Commission, the better. I mean, I said this a thousand days ago at the Press Club at the beginning of 2018. And this is a government who are just, you know, very slow to be accountable.

KARVELAS: So given you think that the board should take responsibility and perhaps the board should go, I just want to go to that substantive issue around salaries and bonuses. Do you think they should also not be given?

SHORTEN: Well, first of all, what I said is, did the board know? I've read reports that they did know. But I mean, this is where the link to the government and the liberals and the Nationals gets a lot stronger, doesn't it? I mean, not only do they run Australia Post, but they've stacked the board of Australia Post in a way which would make political branch stackers blush. In terms of the issue of bonuses and remuneration, I think good organisational behaviour starts from looking after the people at the bottom of the organisation. I mean, the posties have been delivering, Star Trek Express and Australia Post, have been delivering increased amounts of mail and parcels during COVID.I think with the bonuses are going round, rather than reward yourselves who are already well remunerated, why not put some bonuses in the workers’ pay? That's what I think sets the rewards. And you and I both know that Minister Fletcher has been ducking and weaving like an acrobat around the standard of regional post, potential closures of post offices. Consumers are doing it hard. The workforce is doing it hard. And the sort of extravagance at the top, I think, sits very poorly with people who've lost their jobs or people who rely on the postal service or indeed the hardworking postal workforce. Why not give your bonuses to the people who do the work?

KARVELAS: So this revelation that obviously came out through the Senate estimates process, this might have been the dominant issue today but you mentioned the National Integrity Commission. Should Labor back Helen Haines’ private member's bill for National Integrity Commission?

SHORTEN: Well, first of all, I raised the National Integrity Commission, I was the first leader of a major party to do so and back it in, and this was in January of 2018. Now we're not the government. So the only thing which is going to have to move before the next election, the only way we get a National Integrity Commission is if the government budges. But I thought it was actually downright insulting yesterday to watch Morrison and Porter, Mr Morrison and Mr Porter, duck and weave and say the only reason they haven't done a National Integrity Commission is because of the bushfires and the pandemic. Well, you know what? I actually think that insults the people who went through the bushfires, that insults the people who've gone through the pandemic, my hometown of Melbourne and everyone else. You know, we've all been getting on with our lives, people have been putting up with the hardship and doing their day jobs. But this is a government who hides behind the excuse. They're using the pandemic. They're manipulating the pandemic to suit their political laziness at best, or their complete go-slow. I mean, wouldn't it be funny, Patricia, if there was - if a bunch of wharfies at the wharf took a thousand days to unload a container, this government would have them in jail. They'd be suing them and fining them. But this government has adopted industrial relations tactics of the go-slow on the National Integrity Commission. Like, they can do it. Helen Haines - well intentioned. Good person. But the people who get this done are the federal government. And we want to keep the pressure on the feds.

KARVELAS: I want just return to Australia Post and that accountability and how that's going to be handled. You mentioned Christine Holgate is the fall woman for the government. Are you concerned about a shabby treatment of her personally, do you think perhaps she's not being treated well throughout this and that gender might be part of that reason?

SHORTEN: I don’t want leap to conclusions. The decision is going to be investigated, but I'm always wary of just blaming one person. I mean, what is the board's role in this? Presumably with its senior executive remuneration, most large corporations have a remuneration committee of the board. The board, they've got a superb curriculum vitae, not in post, but in Liberal Party service. There’s former national directors, there's the fellow McIvor from Queensland, Michael Ronaldson, you know, affable enough ex-politician, fair enough. But, you know, this is like a branch meeting of the Liberal Party, the Board of Australia Post. And presumably they have some interest in their remuneration strategies adopted by Australia Post. But Mr Morrison's just gone for Christine Holgate, the CEO, but what of the board? What do they know? Where are their fingerprints in all of this? Or do they just turn up for a digestive biccie and a cup of coffee on the board meeting days?

KARVELAS: What are your concerns around the sacking of more than 400 Victorian Centrelink staff employed by Serco?

SHORTEN: This government loves a slogan - JobMaker, JobKeeper, JobSeeker. But at the moment, secretly, they're running Operation JobCutter. They've got rid of 420 contract Services Australia staff at operations at Mill Park and at Dandenong, they’re doing the same thing with 180 jobs in Sydney. We're hearing worrying signs about more jobs going in Tasmania. This government's getting rid of 600 long term casuals, when 1. we need employment, 2. we’ve got more pressure on Centrelink operations than at any time since the Great Depression, since Centrelink was invented. And yet they're getting rid of people who can help keep the queues short, who can help resolve people's distress. I don't know what this government's on about cutting vital government safety net services, just when more people than ever require them and pushing more people onto the unemployment queue when there's meaningful work for them to do. It’s just, completely contradictory.

KARVELAS: I just want to talk about Victoria. How concerned are you by this fresh coronavirus outbreak in public housing in Melbourne?

SHORTEN: Well, what I've read is that the student at a school tested positive for it, but has come back quicker than the quarantine period. So I don't know all of the facts. Of course, I'm concerned. I mean, like you, Patricia, I live in Melbourne. It's been tough for businesses, been tough for families. Five million Australians who live in Melbourne, it's like a different world. Coming up to Canberra during my 14 days quarantine, I'm going to be away from the family for a month. But that's the price you pay. But what I realise is that a lot of the rest of Australia is sort of moving on from COVID. I mean, Sydney's got its challenges, but Melbourne, we're very much still in the middle of all of the restrictions. So, of course, I'm concerned with any reports of an outbreak.

KARVELAS: Is a third lockdown in Melbourne feasible? If it were to get out of control?

SHORTEN: I genuinely don't know. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. I mean, again, coming to Canberra and watching the disconnect between the Morrison government and reality. They've all been standing up here very bravely saying just open everything up, open everything up, and I know some people say that should happen. But one thing which you can't take away from what's happened in Victoria is that once the second outbreak occurred, what the Victorian government tried to do was crush it. I saw an interesting statistic that one particular day in July, when Victoria and Melbourne had 735 cases England and France had about the same number of cases on that day. But you dial forward to now, they've now got 14,000, 15,000 cases a day and we're at less than five. So for better or for worse, we're on the path of crushing it. And that's really where I think we’ve got to focus.

KARVELAS: But you know, business has been concerned that the announcement should have only been made for reopening. Do you think they're being too slow to reopen?

SHORTEN: Well, I'm not going to second guess them at this point. I know people are doing it hard and, you know, there's big business, but there’s small business. As a federal politician I tend to worry about the things that I can influence. I spend most of my time thinking about that. And that's why I think the federal government needs to wake up and realise, Victoria is still in the pandemic. So, dialling forward to the end of the year and early next year, we're still going to need JobKeeper. There’s industry sectors who are getting no attention at all. I can think of two I've met within the last two days. The travel agents, that employs 40,000 people around Australia. They've been wiped out. There's no work, yet they've got to go to work to try and recover all of their customers money from the tourism wholesalers and the international companies. And I don't hear the government on the travel agents. And I was just talking to the live music industry. And by that I mean the concert promoters, the people who run the Palais, the venue operators, they were the first to close. And whilst they are self-sufficient and economically sound in the good times, they're going to need some help being able to keep staff on, not lose necessary skills. There’s a lot of things the federal government could be doing to help Victoria rather than just be the critics from the cheap seats.

KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us, Bill Shorten.

SHORTEN: Thanks, Patricia.

KARVELAS: Bill Shorten, the Shadow Minister for Government Services and the National Disability Insurance Scheme, joining us there.