E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
TODAY SHOW
TUESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: Four Corners report; COVID-19 vaccine developments.

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Welcome back to the show. Bombshell allegations in Canberra this morning, with two senior ministers embroiled in a sex scandal exposed by the ABC. Married MP, Alan Tudge, is revealed to have had an affair with one of his staff members, while Attorney-General Christian Porter has also been accused of inappropriate behaviour with a junior staff member in a Canberra bar, allegations he vehemently denies this morning. This was former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull talking last night:

VIDEO PACKAGE, MALCOLM TURNBULL: “I'd heard reports of him being out in public, having had too much to drink in the company of young women, I reminded him that Canberra was full of spies. Not all of them worked for us”.

STEFANOVIC: Joining me now is Bill Shorten and Stellar Magazine’s Sarrah Le Marquand. Good morning guys, nice to see you. Bill, to you, first of all, were you aware of the allegations?

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: No, I caught bits of the TV story last night. I mean, that’s going to be for the government to explain and Mr Morrison to explain his reaction. I think just at the outset, as a principle, that women staff in parliament have the right to feel safe and supported. As I understand it, and you may have more details, the story was pretty seedy, I thought.

STEFANOVIC: Is it public interest? It's pretty grubby.

SHORTEN: Well, I’m going to leave that for others to decide. There is a principle and I'm not going to every fact situation here because I just literally don't have all the facts here. But women staff have got a right to feel safe, to feel supported. Because its parliament doesn't mean there's a lower or lesser standard than other parts of public life.

STEFANOVIC: Yeah. Sarrah, the big question here is with the sitting Member of Parliament, if there was a power imbalance, if there was a power imbalance, then there's a significant problem and I think full justification for a story. What do you think? What are your thoughts?

SARRAH LE MARQUAND, STELLAR MAGAZINE: Yes, I agree with that part of it, Karl. I mean, Malcolm Turnbull was one of the main on the record sources for the story last night. And I think he was very right when he said in no other parts of the corporate world or the business world, is it still acceptable for this sort of culture, where people that are employing people, as Turnbull said, cabinet ministers, ministers, they have the right to hire and fire staff instantaneously, and that there's this sort of open acceptance of these people having affairs with senior staffers, whether, as he said, they're married or not, is almost irrelevant. That's really probably between someone and their own spouse. But there is a power imbalance. And I think what Four Corners did in a good way was that they did shine a light on the culture that is in Canberra and the way that women are treated as second class citizens. But I think they've left themselves very vulnerable to criticism that they have some sort of vendetta against the Morrison Government, because it was very partisan reporting. We only saw Liberal Coalition staffers and their ministers being put under the spotlight.

STEFANOVIC: That being said, if you had a story and they didn't have any evidence of Labor or the Greens or anyone of any in an alternate party being involved in this kind of activity, would you go with the story?

LE MARQUAND: The thing is, I have spent a lot of time in Canberra over the years Karl, and I was actually there as a parliamentary intern quite a few years ago. And I saw that this culture is widespread. Of course, what was alleged last night is happening on both sides of parliament. And I think - I'm a huge supporter of the #MeToo movement, And I think it's really important that we do in the media use our position to shine a light on this sort of inequity. But it has to be done across the board because otherwise you look like you're using women and their stories to go after your political enemies.

STEFANOVIC: And there'll be severe embarrassment, I'm sure, on behalf of everyone involved this morning. And that needs to be taken into account. Bill, if you're drinking in front of everyone in Canberra and carrying on with someone at a bar, then you deserve to be - you don't deserve to be sacked, but it is stupid, isn't it? That kind of behaviour in front of everyone is a perception issue.

SHORTEN: I mean, I was listening to what Sarrah had to say, and I think a lot of last night's story seemed to be about, I think Malcolm Turnbull sort of has very strong views about his own party, and I think some of that's come perhaps from that debate. I think the world has changed. It's even changed in the 10 years that I've been in parliament. And I do think that people do expect higher standards. Again, I sort of go back to a couple of the basic principles here without knowing all the detail. One is, I think if we can get more women into parliament that just has the effect of improving the standards. Labor has been fortunate to have now, nearly half of our MPs are women. I think that has a better impact. We've got some very strong women, Tanya Plibersek and Penny Wong and Clare O'Neill. And so I just think that helps lift standards. I think the other thing is that the Libs have lost Julie Bishop. Yeah, I think there's a challenge for both sides of politics to get more women into power.

STEFANOVIC: Is there is there a systemic problem in Canberra with this kind of thing?

SHORTEN: No, I don't think that a lot of MPs go to Canberra and, you know, play up and get on the beers every night. I don't think that. I think it has been the case perhaps in the past, in past decades, but no, I don't think so. I think a lot of our MPs go up to Canberra to work and represent their electorates. I mean, I think it's now for Mr Morrison to talk about his reaction. These guys work for him.

STEFANOVIC: Sarrah, just finally on this topic, I mean, it doesn't really go anywhere, does it? This story doesn't or does it?

LE MARQUAND: I think Bill's made a good point there, this morning with his own, Morrison's party room. We’re looking to him to see how he responds. Now, it is my feeling that he won't take any action on this. I could well be wrong, but I think this is an opportunity and not just an opportunity. I think that it is beholden on him to take this moment and show that he does acknowledge that his party has what they call a ‘woman problem’. As Bill said, they need more women there. And even if he's not going to take action against these allegations, I think he needs to show women in his own party and beyond women that might stand for preselection, that this is a party that is ready to treat them as equals and with respect.

STEFANOVIC: Interesting stuff. Just finally, on a much lighter note today, we have a vaccine very, very close. Pfizer announcing this morning a significant breakthrough in the quest for a COVID cure. Bill, a vaccine would make a huge difference. We ready for it?

SHORTEN: Oh, yeah, well, I'm a Victorian and a Melburnian, so... But listen, I think if we want to see international travel again at a serious level, I think the vaccine is important. I mean, Australia's done well. Eventually, we'd like to see international visitors come here and us travel overseas. But I think the vaccine is an important missing link. You know, I'm not going to put down the binoculars and say the race is over yet. Let's see how we go with this vaccine. But I love hearing the news that we can have vaccines and then allow us to travel safely.

STEFANOVIC: You'd have a vaccine?

SHORTEN: Yes, sure.

STEFANOVIC: OK, Sarah, you?

LE MARQUAND: Oh, absolutely Karl, who wouldn't? I mean, hopefully this is a sign we've all been waiting for that things will pick up next year.

STEFANOVIC: I think my sister might be one of the people who doesn't.

SHORTEN: Oh, no.

STEFANOVIC: Yeah, I mean, what can you do? Family.

SHORTEN: Does she get a government payment?

STEFANOVIC: Well, I mean, I think we should climb into all that stuff that my sister doesn't do. Anyway. Who loves family? Hey, put your hands up.

SHORTEN: You're in for a sparkling Christmas.

STEFANOVIC: Not sure she watches the Today show.

SHORTEN: I reckon she’ll hear this one.

LE MARQUAND: I can't think why.

STEFANOVIC: Anyway, moving on. Have a great time you guys, doing whatever you're doing.