E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
TODAY
TUESDAY, 26 JANUARY 2021
 
SUBJECTS: Australian of the Year, Change the Date, future of Labor policy
 
ALLISON LANGDON, HOST: Amazing Grace, that is the headline across the front pages this morning, in tribute to Australian of the Year Grace Tame, who is already using the platform to call for a change to the date of Australia Day. Let's discuss with Shadow Minister for Government Services Bill Shorten and 2GB and 4BC's Chris Smith. Nice to see both of you today. Bill, Grace is incredibly inspirational. I actually interviewed ago her a couple of years ago for '60 Minutes'. As an abuse survivor and as a campaigner, how much impact do you think her calling for a change to Australia Day will have on the debate? And do you think today’s the day for that discussion?
 
BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Well, she's a fantastic winner. I mean, all of the nominees were amazing but she's got a tough and fantastic story. I think she's being allowed to use the opportunity of being Australian of the Year to talk about what's important to her. So, I've got no problems with her expressing her view. I think she reflects what younger people think. I think older Australians are less sold on the need to change the day. But I think she's a really distinguished and notable winner and I'm very happy for her and her supporters.
 
LANGDON: Look, she is an amazing woman. Just seeing her reaction she last night, it was so gorgeous when she was announced the winner. But it certainly adds weight to the argument when you've got the Australian of the Year saying hey, this, you know what, we need to look at this, don't we? Chris?
 
CHRIS SMITH, 2BG/4BC: I don't know whether we need to look at it. My feeling is that we're entitled to debate it and there are a lot of people who think we should change it, and that it offends Aboriginal Australians. I've spoken to a lot of Aboriginal Australians who have moved on from all of that and believe that Australia Day should be a day in which we celebrate not only where the country’s come from, but from where Indigenous Australians have come. We've got a situation where we could change it if we wanted to, but don't think that we're going to get rid of that element of protestor, the rally - none of the rallies will stop if we change it to, I don't know, January the 1st or wherever. They won't stop. Lydia Thorpe said on the ABC yesterday she hadn't thought too much about changing the date. She just believes Australians should make amends for invading the territory. Well, wherever there's a flag waving event, Lydia Thorpe will be there with her protestors. It won't change any of that.
 
LANGDON: And the thought then is, what the alternative is? Just in regards to Grace Tame, she was up against Brendan Murphy who got us through the pandemic. Shane Fitzsimmons, a lot of worthy people in there. So, a very well done to Grace Tame this morning. Look, she was all smiles at yesterday's ceremony, but veteran ABC journalist Kerry O'Brien is not celebrating, rejecting his Australia Day honour in protest at tennis great Margaret Court's elevation to our nation's highest award, the Companion of the Order of Australia. Bill, he's calling it a deeply insensitive and divisive controversial decision. Of course, following her controversial opposition to gay marriage. Bill, do you support his decision?
 
SHORTEN: That's up to him, if he hands back his honour. He feels very strongly and I admire people who stick to their guns. Listen, I think that Margaret Court was a great tennis player. She has been awarded the Officer of the Order Australia. I'm not sure what she had done to be promoted to the next level. So, I do get that what she's said more latterly has offended a lot of people. So, she had one award for her tennis, I don't know why they promoted it - but the decision is made by the Australia Day Council - so I can see why it was controversial.
 
LANGDON: Surely they knew it was going to be divisive, her comments about transgender people, children, and same-sex couples, have been incredibly hurtful to many Australians. Chris, do you think she is a worthy recipient of our nation's highest honour?
 
SMITH: Absolutely. Don't underestimate the support she has. The fact that she follows her Bible, in a strict sense. She interprets the Bible to the letter. And I think a lot of Australians appreciate the fact that she stands by her religion against a whole heap of fall back. She's had heaps bestowed on her, piled on her, and I think she should be regarded highly for not only her tennis work, but also her charity work, her work in the church that she runs in Perth.
 
JEFFREFY: So you think you can you separate these issues?
 
SMITH: Yes, I think you can separate. Just because you stand by your strict interpretation of the Bible, shouldn't be some sort of criminality that cancels out everything that you've achieved elsewhere. Kerry O'Brien would boo Santa Claus, Kerry O'Brien. He has a black armband view of the world. Of the 837 recipients, I'm sure Kerry would find one that he didn't appreciate. And I'm sure he's clinking his glass today saying "Look, look what we’ve done to the empire. Charge on the republic", that is Kerry O'Brien for you.
 
LANGDON: So you're a Kerry O'Brien fan.
 
SMITH: Not.
 
SHORTEN: Is that really fair though? I mean, Kerry's allowed to have his view and I don't think it is just him who has that view. I agree that someone's religious views shouldn't be pilloried in the public square, I get that. But did she just get the promotion because she's religious?
 
SMITH: We don't know. We do know she's done a lot apart from play tennis.
 
SHORTEN: Sure. Sure. But I just want to make it clear that I think people can object to someone's religion views without bagging all of religion and I think that some people who hold extreme views just say oh, I'm just being bagged because I'm religious, whereas don't we all have a right to rub along together and sort of give each other a bit of room? And that includes people who have got very hurtful views. Perhaps they don't need to always subject everyone else to them.
 
SMITH: I'm sure that Kerry O'Brien, though, would have found one person in the 837 that he didn't approve of.
 
LANGDON: As you say, Margaret Court, maybe a lot of people support her, but she has caused a lot of hurt to a lot of people in this country. So that is why this is divisive. I do want to change subject now because Bill, you're causing a little bit of controversy, criticising Labor's policy agenda, so you believe your party, you think your party doesn't stand for anything, has lost touch with blue collar workers, that’s a big smackdown of Anthony Albanese's - I can't say Albanese this morning! Of his leadership, isn't it?
 
SHORTEN: Well, I think that there's a whole lot in what you said but it's not all accurate. I will be honest, I think it is a bit of click bait headlines. I gave a talk at a book launch on Sunday, a whole lot of essays about how Labor can do better. And my key sort of proposition is that you can take too many ideas to the election and I've learnt that and I've reflected on that. It's important that we are very clear though, with our policies and that we have some ideas. Now, I think we do. But I also think that we have got a challenge with working class people in this country.
 
LANGDON: But come on, Bill. You were critical of Anthony Albanese's leadership in this.
 
SHORTEN: No, that’s not right. 
 
LANGDON: Are you ruling out ever leading the party again?
 
SHORTEN: Let's just go to leadership straight away and skip the detail, but no. I'm absolutely not running for leader. I have a view that you don't have to be the leader to be a leader, and there is lots you can do in politics without being the captain of the team.
 
LANGDON: All right. Look, amid all the controversy on this Australia Day, and there has been plenty, I want to ask you this because we need to finish on a lighter note. Your best or perhaps your worst Aussie joke. Chris, off you go.
 
SMITH: Why can't Bill Shorten go first. It's not fair.
 
LANGDON: I reckon yours is going to be daggier.
 
SMITH: All right I think you told this just after 6:00. But what is a boomerang that doesn't come back? A stick. (LAUGHTER) Karl laughed!
 
SHORTEN: You put the pressure on. There's an Englishman, an American and an Aussie trapped on a desert island and they have been there for a long time. Then one night, there was a terrible storm and Aladdin's lamp washes up. They polish it up, and unplug it and out comes the Genie and it says to the American, the Englishman and the Aussie, you can have one wish. After years, the American said I just want to go home. And then blink. He's gone. The Englishman said I want to go home and I want to have a great English meal. Great. Gone. And the Aussie says oh, geez, I miss them. Can I have my friends back? [LAUGHTER}

LANGDON: I don't know which one is daggier. They are both, both terrible.
 
SHORTEN: You lot are a hard audience.
 
LANGDON: That is not what I was expecting. I love it guys. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.