E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
TODAY
TUESDAY, 30 JUNE 2020

SUBJECTS: Victorian coronavirus outbreak; Reopening of the Queensland border; JobSeeker participants; Returning to work; Vaping laws.

DAVID CAMPBELL, HOST: Welcome back. A huge day in the nation's battle against Coronavirus. The PM sending in eight hundred federal staff and more ADF troops to Melbourne, where authorities are struggling to contain a surge in cases. The AFL season is in turmoil as rival states ban contact with Victorian clubs, while Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk will today decide if and when to reopen the state's borders. It's a lot to talk about. To discuss this, I'm joined by Shadow Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten and Triple M's Gus Worland, well Bill to you first. It's not a second wave, they're not calling it that just yet, but this is a surge, it's a spike and a poll today sees Premier Daniel Andrews suffering a sharp decline in support. So how do you think he's handling the crisis? And are you worried about the spike?

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Oh, I think he's doing a good job, in terms of the fundamental issue, I am worried. I mean, I was speaking to a friend of mine who's a senior surgeon who's dealt with intensive care matters with people who have coronavirus and I think there's a bit of complacency that’s come back into not just the Victorian population, but the Australian population. I asked my friend the surgeon and what happens when you've got a serious case of Coronavirus. I want to make clear that it's not another case of the flu, what happens is you get short of breath, you get so short of breath that you need the help of a ventilator machine to artificially keep you breathing, and then what happens is if that's not doing the job, your organs start to fail and then you die. Now, this is not what we want for anyone. So I just think that we need to reconsider, I know we're very impatient to get back to normal, but if the price of that is a spike in deaths, I mean, what we've seen is a lot of this latest second surge has come from family gatherings. It's come from community transmission. Indeed, perhaps even young people have been getting COVID, they get through it because they're healthier and it affects older people worse, but it's the next week, which I think all eyes should be upon, because if older people start getting this COVID, then we're back to that dreadful scenario that my surgeon friend was telling me at the start of my answer.

CAMPBELL: Well, Gus, I mean, you know, patience is a virtue here. I mean, we look at America and other places overseas where it's really just not going to end and it's like a tidal wave on a tidal wave. Now AFL teams are affected from Victoria, how do you think it is going to be if Annastacia Palaszczuk, if she agrees to open the Queensland borders? But if she doesn't, that's the end of the season.

GUS WORLAND, TRIPLE M RADIO: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, I think she's right to do that, if she believes that, that's going to be best for her people. But lots of mates of mine in Queensland want everything open but of course, we didn't expect the second spike. Singapore had nothing, they opened everything up again they had a bigger spike than they did right at the start. As Bill said, this is deadly. People are dying every day, hundreds and thousands of people are dying around the world. So we have to be patient, if we have to cop it for a bit longer, then we're going to have to, and if the AFL season gets stuffed up, well, that's just the way it has to be. We have to look after Aussie citizens and make sure that we can get through the best we can. Patience is an absolute virtue. Listen to the medical professionals, that's all we can do, they know what they're talking about.

CAMPBELL: We're still in a good bubble down here in Australia but we do have to be patient, and today a Facebook poll is showing most of you think the Queensland border should remain closed, which was a shock this morning. Only 24 per cent say it should reopen on July 10 with 76 per cent against it. But let's move on and it was introduced as an emergency measure to save the economy but this morning, the multi-billion dollar JobKeeper program is accused of actually damaging our COVID recovery with business leaders warning the scheme is encouraging the jobless to opt for the dole instead of work. Now, Bill, I want to go to you on this because some businesses are saying they're struggling to find staff, that people would rather be on JobKeeper than to find work, do you believe that?

SHORTEN: Listen, on balance no I don't, before the COVID-19 wave hit, there were about 220,000 vacancies and about 700,000 unemployed people. Now we've got 1.64 million unemployed people and we're got 130,000 vacancies or in other words, in plain English before the virus, one job vacancy for every three unemployed. Now there's one job vacancy for every twelve people, so all these people are unemployed during the virus, they've taken one for the team. I mean, they didn't ask to lose their jobs, they haven’t been lost their jobs because they're bad at their job. Like a lot of small businesses haven't lost business because they're bad at small business. This virus has meant that we prioritise public health first and now I don't want to be in a situation where we're kicking people when they're down, when, frankly, these people are sacrificing their jobs so that we can have the social distancing and the social isolation and deal with the virus. So I hope the government doesn't have a secret plan to reduce it and they're just not telling us before the Eden Monaro by-election on Saturday.

CAMPBELL: I just want to correct myself, I said JobKeeper it’s JobSeeker Gus, but why would someone want to return to work if they say they can stay at home? Maybe earn more from a government handout. Or do you believe what Bill signs that you know, this is just, it looks like it's just we're just shaming people for it when they can't get a job?

WORLAND: Well, I've heard through a lot of my, I've got two teenage children that are in this situation and because my missus and I say, you got to go back to work when the person that is giving you a job expect you to, he goes all well I could actually stay at home and earn more, go to work and do your actual job. I can understand why some people may not be thinking that way. I sit back and sit at home and I'm going to earn more rather than having to go to work. But, you know, I'm with Bill at the end of the day, I think we've got to look Aussies foremost, and that's the number one priority I want.

CAMPBELL: And then just quickly on the big debate right now over the future of vaping and Bill, I know you've got a lot to say about this, after a decision to ban imported products containing nicotine from tomorrow was put back six months. Bill, what are your concerns?

SHORTEN: Well, I think that putting anything into your lungs other than air is not the best health outcome. But I think in Australia, we've got a contradictory attitude to vaping, some people say it's harmful for your health, I think the jury's out on that, but what I'm finding is that for a lot of people, it's been a gateway not into smoking, but a gateway out of smoking. And that a lot of people say that e-cigarettes and the vaping is a way of them weaning themselves off, which is more effective than nicotine patches. The Government without any warning, said 1 July, you can't bring in any e-cigarettes or will nicotine products for this from overseas. The dilemma with that is that all of a sudden you're just going to either force people to illegal tobacco or indeed smoking. I think the government needs to bit longer than six months to get it right because this hits young people are hard. But it just seems to me that we're just saying this is illegal but we don't say smoking's illegal, I think it's just a bit too heavy-handed.

CAMPBELL: Gus I mean, we're seeing results in Europe they’re saying that vaping is helping people get off smoking. So what do you think? Should we ban this?

WORLAND: You know, I don't think we should. I think if it's getting people off smoking when the government makes much money from smoking and stuff as well, so if they're allowing that then why they mucking around with vaping for, there's something out there at the moment, these small little things that my kids I've seen the parties and stuff which have all guava flavour and apple juice and that sort of stuff, those type of things are a major worry because that's actually a bit of a kick start for a lot of kids to start smoking. But as Bill said, only fresh air into your lungs, but if it's stopping people smoking, I reckon we've got to keep these e-cigarettes going until we get it right. Don't just ban it and say you're going to do it on this day, give it a bit more time. So I'm glad they're going to give at least six months.

CAMPBELL: Breathe the fresh air while you can boys, thanks for being on the show.