E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
TODAY
WEDNESDAY, 3 JUNE 2020

SUBJECTS: American racial tensions; American protests; President Trump’s response; NSW police incident; NSW Police investigation; Aboriginal deaths in custody; Sydney & Melbourne protests.

ALLISON LANGDON, HOST: Well, America is this morning a nation divided. Seven days and nights of violence, anger and looting in cities right across the nation. President Trump accused of fanning the flames with his threats to unleash the military on his own people to restore law and order and to discuss, I'm joined by the Shadow Minister for Government Services, Bill Shorten and in Washington DC is Australian Ebony Bowden, who is a correspondent for The New York Post. Thank you, both of you, for your time this morning. Ebony, I just want to go to you first. Can you just explain to me what is happening on the ground in the city where you live?

EBONY BOWDEN, NEW YORK POST: It's an incredibly scary time in America right now, Ali, people are very afraid. We've just had three months of the coronavirus and now we see these scenes of violence and unrest in the country. Last night we saw an incredible escalation of that when we saw the National Guard kind of fire on peaceful protesters just outside the White House. This was an incredible juxtaposition to what was going on inside the walls of the White House when President Trump was delivering this really strong law and order speech. But I have never really seen anything like this before, I've lived in America for several years and I, as a journalist, did not feel safe last night, I was threatened with arrest, we saw journalists being attacked by police. Reporters were being pepper sprayed, the situation here has reached a fever pitch and it is really a very scary and an uncertain time here.

LANGDON: Bill, what did you make of Mr. Trump's speech yesterday? I mean, it was an opportunity to unite his country, which, as we saw last night with the level of violence had increased, it didn't happen. Did you expect something more from him?

BILL SHORTEN, MEMBER FOR MARIBYRNONG: Yes. I actually think, I mean there are plenty of problems here, there's the racial injustice and there's police killing African-Americans, there's unemployment on a mass scale, there's the pandemic. But I don't think President Trump appears to be helping the situation, it seems to me that he's fuelling it. What I can't work out about President Trump is at this point in the nation's history, it needs to bring people together. But I don't know if he's got a very clever and cunning strategy just to appeal to his base of voters by demonising the other people, or if he really believes some of the stuff that he's saying. But either way, I think Australians are disturbed, most Australians are disturbed by his leadership at the moment.

LANGDON: Well, Bill, in 2016, you described Mr Trump as and I’ll quote, barking mad. Do you still think that?

SHORTEN: Well, then I said it because of his views about women, the fact that he accused war hero John McCain of not being a hero because he got captured by the North Vietnamese. I have to say that he's done little to change my mind on a range of his views since then, I don't know if we recall that amazing scene last month where he was suggesting that people should just disinfect their veins, put disinfectant into their veins. But nations make their own luck and I think the problem with the protests, I think Ebony has said, is that this doesn't look like the America that many of us know. Australians like America, but I think for the first time in our relationship since World War Two, we don't know if there's a good cop on the beat anymore in terms of America and its consistent decision making. So I think it's really, really disturbing and upsetting.

LANGDON: I think it is disturbing for all of us, Ebony who recently spent an hour with the president in the Oval Office doing an interview, do you think he has it within himself to unite his country?

BOWDEN: Look, I've been speaking to the President's advisers. I feel like this is a very pivotal moment in his presidency. I think the American people are looking for someone to comfort and console them and as one of the president's advisers said to me, that he is not the consoler in chief. He came to power on a very strong law and order platform and so I think that is what he is going to do up until November, certainly the situation has, in the last few nights, has gotten really out of hand, in New York we saw mass looting, thousands of people breaking into stores along 6th Avenue and in SoHo and it was really out of control, the police did not have a handle on the situation. So I think in some ways, President Trump threatening to crack down on the situation now it's gotten very out of hand and we have seen people who have good intentions, peaceful demonstrators, that has given way to rioting and looting. So I think that the President will continue with his, he will continue doubling down or he's tough on crime stance. Whether or not the voters respond to that well in November, we will see. But certainly this is very by the book for him, and I don't really see him becoming a warm and cuddly and soft emotional political figure like, someone such as Joe Biden for example.

LANGDON: And it might just get him back in and re-elected in November, but what we've seen now, Bill, I mean, this movement, it's reached our shores. We've got protesters marching in Sydney last night, another rally is planned in Melbourne this Saturday and, of course, this comes as a police officer in Sydney is being investigated after kicking an indigenous teenager to the ground during an arrest. Bill, do we have an issue with how police here deal with indigenous people?

SHORTEN: I think our police on average are more professional than many American police departments. Obviously, that footage will require investigation, in terms of the broader issue, one in every thousand African-American men will die through a police gun. We don't have that problem, but there's been over 400 black deaths in custody in the last 25 years and no one ever has been convicted. Aboriginal Australians do, they make up 30 per cent of the prison population, yet only 3 percent of our population generally. So somewhere along the line, our custodial system, I think, is getting people into jail when they could be diverted onto better, more constructive paths. I'm not saying we are America, but we should always remember that, you know, we're not saints here and we can do things better. But on the balance in America, what's happening now is just staggering and it's taken years for it to get to this point. Going back to your early question about, you know, in American politics, you can't solve protests without dealing with the causes of protests.

LANGDON: And look, I just want to end on something very positive that came out of all of we're seeing these beautiful, powerful displays of hope and humanity, police and protesters hugging, kneeling together, joining hands in prayer. I mean, Ebony, that's gonna to give you a little bit of hope, just quickly.

BAUDER: Yeah, I mean, I've been on the frontlines of these protests watching black police officers connect with these black young men and women who are protesting, and I feel like we're at a real pivotal moment in this country and I hope the conversation keeps going in the right direction and we keep having these conversations about race.

LANGDON: Yeah. Ebony, Bill, thank you so much for joining us this morning. It's a bit of a heavy day – bit of a heavy week isn’t it, a bit of a heavy year to be honest. All right, we'll talk to you soon.